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Strang Report: It's Time for Spiritual Fathers

Wednesday, August 13, 2008

It's Time for Spiritual Fathers

It's time for the spiritual fathers to step up and help Todd Bentley, the former leader of the revival that has come to be known as the “Lakeland Outpouring.”

In light of the tragic news of the break-up of Bentley's marriage and some type of breakdown by Bentley himself (close associates are being tight-lipped), I believe his apostolic covering needs to minister not only to him but also to the larger body of Christ.

In June, at the request of Stephen Strader, pastor of Lakeland, Florida’s Ignited Church, Peter Wagner, head of the International Coalition of Apostles, agreed to lead an effort to address some of the concerns other ministers had voiced regarding the outpouring. As a result, Bentley and the revival in Lakeland were put under apostolic covering in what I consider a very healthy step

Too often in the "anything-goes-if-there's-an-'anointing' " charismatic environment there is no clear line of spiritual authority. But at Wagner's leading, Bentley submitted to the authority of three mature men of God--John Arnott, Ché Ahn and Bill Johnson--who love him and who agreed to give him and his ministry apostolic oversight

I know all three of these men personally. Each of them has a stellar reputation and is known for his desire to see revival come to the body of Christ. Each endorsed the Lakeland Outpouring and on June 23 laid hands on Bentley to commission him to lead that revival

About a week ago Wagner issued a statement about the commissioning process, which I believe was needed and very helpful. Little did any of us know that within a matter of days revelations would come out about Bentley. In 20/20 hindsight perhaps we should have seen it coming.


  • -Anyone who is in services 4 to 6 hours a day, 7 days a week for weeks on end is bound to have some type of breakdown.
  • -Anyone who covers himself with tattoos while in the ministry raises questions about his stability.
  • -Anyone who talks about the "Angel of the Healing Revival" that ministered to A.A. Allen and William Branham must have overlooked the fact that Allen and Branham both were discredited with moral shortcomings.
  • -Anyone who baptizes people in the name of the Father, the Son "and BAM" is playing lightly with the Holy Spirit and is bordering on blasphemy.

Many of us who long for revival saw the hungry people coming to Lakeland and witnessed the powerful anointing. We recognize that God can use flawed people (because He uses us!), yet we had major questions about Bentley. But rather than censoring him, we wanted to help correct the problems.

Now is the time for Bentley to be corrected. But it would also be good for Arnott, Ahn and Johnson, as well as other leaders such as Wagner, to issue a statement to the body of Christ to help the tens and perhaps hundreds of thousands who were affected by the outpouring understand what is going on spiritually.

Because all of these men endorsed the revival, it might even be appropriate for them to issue an apology. Some of Bentley's critics say an apology is necessary.

Perhaps some of the problems would have been prevented if men had spoken into Bentley's life several months ago. As good as it is to have an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff to help the injured, it is much better to have a fence at the top of the cliff to prevent someone from going over.

The Old Testament is full of the stories of flawed men God used powerfully. He continues to use flawed men and women today. But at the same time I believe God sets a higher standard for leaders in the church, requiring them to live righteous and holy lives. It is not right for the leaders who encourage us to follow God with utmost devotion to fall into divorce and other sins while the mocking world watches.

Strader, the pastor to whom Bentley handed "the baton of the Outpouring" earlier this month and who is continuing the services at his church, said that a television news crew was outside his church Tuesday covering what is happening. Newsmen are usually skeptical of high-profile preachers because they've seen them rise and fall in the past.

Strader told me that his church, which seats about 800, was packed with people wanting a touch from God. But he admitted that many have been devastated by the news about Bentley’s marriage, including many of the young staff members who were employed by Bentley's ministry, Fresh Fire. Bentley, his wife, Shonnah, and their family, also, are clearly in turmoil.

Strader mentioned as we talked that we have to be careful not to shoot our wounded. I was reminded of his comment during my daily Bible reading this morning, which included Galatians 6—a passage that says we need to restore those who fall with a spirit of gentleness so that we don't fall into the same sin. But he also pointed out that there must be a reason why the story of Ananias and Sapphira is in the Bible as a warning to others.

I invite you to click here to read Wagner's statement, which was written before Bentley's pending divorce had become public. And you're welcome to leave your comments on our blog. Also, click here to read a commentary on this sad story by my colleague Lee Grady.

57 Comments:

  • At August 13, 2008 3:47 PM , Blogger rad said...

    Dear Steve,

    You had some very good comments in your article, especially about not killing our wounded. I hope that TB reconciles with his wife, but I nor many know what's really going on. I think the best thing to do is to pray, rather than criticize. The right moves have been taken in submitting to authority. Even Paul the Apostle was left all alone in prison, and only one person can to his aide, a slave, Onesimus. Much of the book of Philemon is dedicated to this servant of Paul, and the Lord. I don't believe at all that the people at the revival were false, but in the end, we all stand before the Lord and give an account. I was not there, but it appears that many people were genuinely touched by the Lord.

    To be in revival 7 days a week for more than 140 days is a lot. Even Jesus got alone to pray, far from the crowd. After a revival Jesus would often go alone to pray, and his disciples would have to go off and find him. But they had a good chance of finding him -- praying.

    Pat Robertson of the 700 Club was once asked, why he never fell. He said his daily devotional was probably the reason!!!

    God Bless

    Brad

     
  • At August 13, 2008 4:38 PM , Blogger Marie Natha said...

    Strang wrote:
    "Strader...pointed out that there must be a reason why the story of Ananias and Sapphira is in the Bible as a warning to others."

    What a low cop-out!! This is such an old and tired spiritual threat to anyone who dares to confront error in the church. The fruit of such a threat is what we are seeing today - the entire Christian Church being held up to "much deserved" ridicule for allowing such an outrage and this BAM ministry into the forefront.

    Listen to bullies like Stephen Strader and we'll be eye-witnesses of the Great Apostasy and the death of Christianity - and the rise of the Great Harlot.

    Quite a sign of the times!

     
  • At August 13, 2008 5:28 PM , Blogger carol said...

    I am real sorry to hear of Todd Bentley's marriage breakdown. The religious hounds will be on his case and say "I told you so." However, I believe Todd is human and has been under tremendous stress. How many of us have worked seven days a week for months on end pouring our heart out like he has. Please don't beat a soldier when he's down. The Bible tells us to pray and hold such a one up in love. Pray for his wife and children as I'm sure its not easy for them either. God bless you Todd we are praying for you.

     
  • At August 13, 2008 6:30 PM , Blogger Will Riddle said...

    Steven, I'm disappointed by this commentary. It smells too much like "shooting the wounded." to me, which may be why Strader felt prompted to say this to you in conversation. I say this not, as a blind revival proponent, because I also had concerns. I'm not sure what "BAM" has to do with it though. This bit about Ananias and Sapphira couldn't be more misapplied than it is here. Bentley is a paragon of virtue when compared to a lot of what we see on TV in the name of Christ. Maybe redirect that to the TV money abusers.

     
  • At August 13, 2008 6:47 PM , Blogger Hesed said...

    Steve,
    I appreciate your support of those you feel are friends and are wanting revival.

    But this revival had warning signs several years in the past, with Todd dropping off the radar and away from ministry, spending a lot of money on tattoos, and coming back with a new image to sell.

    The erroneous teachings and some that most would consider heretical on Todd's website should have been enough in order to see through the deception/error that was being played out on stage in Lakeland.

    I'm surprised that Charisma Magazine supported this, without reservation, and now acts as if they knew true revival from the false from day one.

     
  • At August 13, 2008 7:04 PM , Blogger Colleen said...

    It is about time that the warnings went out! My goodness here, we are talking about being deceived, which we have been warned about and we are definetly in the 'minute before midnight'. When I heard Todd tell about his experience about the fire taking him to heaven and the angels tying him on an operating table and sticking a needle into his neck, then cutting him open and stuffing him with something, that did it for me! Sounds too much like what I have heard about people being kidnapped by aliens in UFO's. Same story. I don't know who had him but I don't believe it was the good guys. And as for shooting the wounded, no one is think of how many have been wounded by this farce. I pray that Todd gets his eyes on God and can be all that God wants him to be. It is never to late as long as we have breath.

    Bless you and your magazine and Lee Grady for his warnings too.

    Colleen

     
  • At August 13, 2008 7:11 PM , Blogger Sandra said...

    Our flaws are private but Todd's was public...all the leaders who he was in relationship with should have been giving guidance [don't know if there were]...but we tend to be drawn to gifts rather than character..bottom line is Todd loves God, he became side tracked...his relationship with the Lord and the salvation of his soul is the most important thing...nothing else really matters...his wife and those little ones needs their daddy whole and restored. Let us pray for him and not kill our wounded soldier.
    sandra

     
  • At August 13, 2008 7:12 PM , Blogger Denise said...

    I went down to the Lakeland meetings for about 5 days in May with a friend. I am a Spirit-filled Charasmatic that has been very much involved in the prophetic movement the past seven years or so. I served on staff at a large prophetic ministry for four of those years.

    My purpose for going down to Lakeland was to "test the Spirit" for myself as the Word of God tells us to do. I wasn't about to just "jump in" without knowing if this was a genuine move of God for myself. After my trip, the lady I went with and another mutual friend accused me of being "against the revival" just because I was using the sense of discernment that God has given me and raising some valid questions, as Charisma did. It unfortunately seemed that anyone who asked a question or raised a concern about Lakeland was automatically accused of having a "religious spirit" and of blaspheming move of God.

    I think the lesson the Charasmatic movement needs to learn from this tragedy is that by using our brains and the common sense God has blessed us with does not constitute having the "R" word...a "religious spirit"...the very thing we Charasmatics are so afraid of. God wouldn't have given us brains if He didn't want us to use them. The cautions raised about this revival were very valid and definitely needed to be addressed. Thank you to Charisma for raising these concerns at the risk of being accused of blaspheming a move of God....which I know you were accused of.

    Sadly, my friendship with the two ladies who accused me of being "against the revival" ended. That was the fruit of my going down to Lakeland...the end of two good friendships. This whole thing has been tragic for the body of Christ and for me personally. We all need to begin to cry out to God for healing for Todd, his family, Fresh Fire Ministries and the entire body of Christ...the enemy loves this stuff and his plan is to use this situation to tear us all apart and competely dishearten us. I know in many ways he has attacked me through this. But God is more than able to take this mess and turn it into a true miracle of humility and redemption...because that is what our Father is really all about.

    One last point...I also think that we Charasmatics (myself included) need to repent of having our own form of a "religious spirit". By that I mean we tend to look down upon other Christians who aren't Spirit-filled or those who might be somewhat uncomfortable with all the crazy stuff that we seem to love. Some of these brothers and sisters in the Lord are real "salt of the earth" people that lives of true integrity and honor before God. Maybe we need to learn something from them and not judge them for being a little uptight. God needs ALL of His children in His end-time army...and yes, there is a place for others besides we Charasmatics :)

     
  • At August 13, 2008 7:16 PM , Blogger David Copeland said...

    This post has been removed by the author.

     
  • At August 13, 2008 7:31 PM , Blogger David Copeland said...

    I have been writing and preaching for several years now on the need for spiritual fathers to come forth in the Body of Christ. Malachi ends declaring unto us the curse that comes on fatherless families (nations and churches for that matter) unless there is a turning of the heart of the fathers FIRST to the children. But again, another fad in the Body is a desire for pastors to be coaches instead of fathers. It's easier to coach people than to take responsibility, time and energy to properly raise a son or daughter.

    I've noticed this about coaches: they tend to go where the big money, prestige and greater "perks" are; while a true father and mother will not go anywhere that they can't take their children!

    I am not throwing Todd under the bus; my wife and I are good statistics of how God can heal and rescue a marriage that looks like it is over! God still IS the God of restoration! I pray he and his wife find the healing, and forgiveness and restoration and that God is able to set Him in the Word of God...not the word of an angel.

    David Copeland
    Revival Now Ministries
    Lanett, Alabama

     
  • At August 13, 2008 8:39 PM , Blogger The Unknown Preacher said...

    This is terrible! Is Todd on a suicide watch? All of his friends and apparently his family are turning their backs on him. How terribly sad. He really, really needs professional help now more than ever!
    As pastors,we will have to deal with the fallout of the thousands of dissallusioned christians.

     
  • At August 13, 2008 9:23 PM , Blogger Joel and Kathy said...

    We offer a Weekend Marriage Intensive that brings miracles to marriages with the worst type of issues.

    Since the beginning of the revival, we have enjoyed the obvious annointing on the praise and worship - and the presence of God - while at the same time, we have communicated to some of the leadership of the revival: "What about Todd's marriage?"

    We also communicated that marriage needed to be a major focus so that marriages would not be destroyed as a result of this revival - as has happened in so many other "consecutive night" revivals.

    We pray that the message will get through to Todd and Shonnah that help is available.

    That message has been sent to Todd through the leadership of the Lakeland Revival, through a message directly to Fresh Fire and also in a communication to Todd's father.

    No, we do not have direct contact information for Todd and Shonnah - but pray for them to receive the messages and to come to one of our Weekend Marriage Intensives.

    God can do a miracle of restoration in their marriage; and the same miracle is available to anyone reading this who may also need a miracle.

    If you need help in your marriage, please go to www.GodSaveMyMarriage.com and look into the two books and the Weekend Marriage Intensive.

     
  • At August 13, 2008 10:42 PM , Blogger Onesimus said...

    Yes, Todd Bentley needs some GENUINE spiritual help. He needs to be freed form the occultists and false prophets that have led his spiritual life so far.

    When is the charismatic church going to wake up to the way the Christian faith has been hijacked by those spreading unscriptural doctrines and continual failed prophecies.

    When is the charismatic church going to stop criticising those who call for scriptural foundations to be upheld? When will the charismatic church stop chasing experience and start hungering for TRUTH?

    Mr Bentley is a victim of this slackness in the charismatic church.

     
  • At August 13, 2008 11:22 PM , Blogger flor hull said...

    how sad, how sad, i feel so heartbroken for the body of christ, the world doesnt kill us, we kill each other. stop talking about this man and get on your knees and pray. Proverbs 6:16 the six things God hates. all he has ever done is get people saved, healed and delivered. shame on Peter wagner for not backing his brother up and covering him with mercy.

    we don't even know the details of the separation. maybe it had nothing to do with him? who knows, you don't live in his house.

    and if it did? we All sin and fall short of God's glory. maybe we don't drink anymore or fornicate or use drugs and maybe some of us don't have marriage problems right? what about your gossip, your anger, your self righteousness? Maybe that smile, just hoping this brother would fall? Ive never seen him in person, maybe i didnt like the tatoos or his way, but if we aren't out there saving souls, or reaching the kids, God will use whoever He chooses and who the heck are we to judge who God chooses.

    STOP murdering our wounded soldiers... let's pray and get them healed up.

     
  • At August 14, 2008 4:35 AM , Blogger REV. THOMSON said...

    Errors here, Mr. Strang.

    First, Rev. A.A. Allen NEVER IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER claimed he was contacted by "The Angel of the Healing Revival". People in his meetings, as in many meetings, claimed to see angels. As for his "moral" problems, it is well-known that the Assemblies of God, jealous over his large interdenominational fellowship, framed him with a phony alcoholism charge; later the coroner who said Allen's death was due to chronic alcoholism CONFESSED he had lied and COMMITTED SUICIDE. All of this happened because Allen was honest enough in his autobiographical books to explain that his dirt-poor parents in Arkansas put alcohol in his baby bottle. So the Enemy obtained his ammunication.

    I think you need to get your facts straight before smearing Allen with the Wm. Branham excrement.

    Also, please consider that Strader has a son who has completed just a few years in prison of a 45-yr jail sentence for financial fraud in his father's congregation, and Strader himself, in my opinion, has skated on thin ice.

    As for John Arnott's of the Toronto Blessing being totally upright and beyond reproach, lo and behold he is suing a Canadian for $50 million ($50,000,000), simply for some negative emails concerning the signs and wonders ministry and the questionable "fruit" which this man has had the courage to report.

    I used to subscribe to Charisma magazine many years ago. I am surprised it is still in business. Maybe more people now will really listen to the Lord and discern the truth.

     
  • At August 14, 2008 5:24 AM , Blogger iberiahorse said...

    Quote:
    -Anyone who is in services 4 to 6 hours a day, 7 days a week for weeks on end is bound to have some type of breakdown.

    I disagree.

    Why should they be 'bound to have a breakdown' ? It is not as though that were some sort of inevitable result.

    There are many people who go through far worse physical and mental hardships than 'meetings every night' - and indeed, many ministers who go through just that - and do not claim the 'right' to a breakdown.

     
  • At August 14, 2008 6:18 AM , Blogger judyrosa said...

    Thank you so much for the way you manage to "tell it like it is" but with compassion. Also, our God did move and is moving at Lakeland. Revival has started in our congregation as a result of our Pastor and others being touched there. I join with others in praying for Todd, his family, and his ministry team. The enemy found a weak spot and exploited it. Sad, but let us not let the enemy steal the whole revival! I believe God will continue to pour out His spirit on our nation and world if we will just keep our eyes on HIM and not any man.

     
  • At August 14, 2008 6:31 AM , Blogger Mark said...

    Dear Steve,
    Thank you for being so open with your comments and suggestions about the Lakeland "Revival?" and those Apostles who should be overseeing it.

    I have wondered why no one has stepped in and shut this absurdity down. Blatant manipulation of the people, total disrespect for the Holy Spirit, a lack of emulating the nature and character of Christ, and the prideful "showboating" of this evanglist (TB) is absolutely an atrocity in the true Body of Christ.

    Grady's comments in his article "Life After Lakeland" is the type of truth people need to hear and heed today.

    Come on Christian America, take your blinders off, pat down those "roller coaster thrill ride goose-bumps", and allow the true move of the Spirit of God lead you into your own revival! You don't have to be seduced by fireworks, loud boastings, and drama to experience revival! If you want to attract the Holy Ghost become broken, repentant, and pliable in His hands, and I promise you He will revive you!

    Keep up the good work.

    Mark

     
  • At August 14, 2008 6:31 AM , Blogger Mark said...

    Dear Steve,
    Thank you for being so open with your comments and suggestions about the Lakeland "Revival?" and those Apostles who should be overseeing it.

    I have wondered why no one has stepped in and shut this absurdity down. Blatant manipulation of the people, total disrespect for the Holy Spirit, a lack of emulating the nature and character of Christ, and the prideful "showboating" of this evanglist (TB) is absolutely an atrocity in the true Body of Christ.

    Grady's comments in his article "Life After Lakeland" is the type of truth people need to hear and heed today.

    Come on Christian America, take your blinders off, pat down those "roller coaster thrill ride goose-bumps", and allow the true move of the Spirit of God lead you into your own revival! You don't have to be seduced by fireworks, loud boastings, and drama to experience revival! If you want to attract the Holy Ghost become broken, repentant, and pliable in His hands, and I promise you He will revive you!

    Keep up the good work.

    Mark

     
  • At August 14, 2008 6:34 AM , Blogger SteveH said...

    It is sad about Todd's marriage situation and hopefully he and his wife will find support and healing. But let's put first things first--Todd's greatest need is spiritual healing. His beliefs and teachings include great heresies. Those heresies have already been challenged by others; and I won't recount them here.

    Why is it that so many are prepared to allow, excuse and even accept great heresies as truth? I think there are at least two reasons for this.

    First, many believe that "experience" is bigger than the truth revealed in God's Word. As this thinking goes, if it is working it must be truth because the truth works. Thus, if there are large crowds, if it's on GODTV and if people are claiming to have been healed--it's working so it must be "true". According to this gospel, many remain unwilling to criticize Todd's minsitry because it seemed to be working. Of course this is not biblical at all. Because something seems to us to work does not mean it is of God. It must be measured against God's Word which trumps experience.

    And second, many believe that "faith" is the opposite of "doubt". Faith is believed to be a frenzy we work ourselves into--with the goal of eliminating all doubt. The goal is not truth, but "total belief". According to this gospel, it is not so important what you believe as it is how completely you believe it. Since any "questioning" of Todd's ministry or theology manifests doubt which is the opposite of faith, it must be branded "faithless". This error probably accounts for GODTVs demonization of all criticism of Todd's ministry. Of course this is also not biblical at all. Faith is not the opposite of doubt. Complete belief in a lie does not make it the truth. The bible never for a moment suggests that we are supposed to suspend our God given abilities to reason and think critically. Instead, faith is what we exercise when we look ahead to things unseen to do what is right even though we do not get what is promised and even though we have doubts(read Hebrews 11). Faith demands doubt. Without doubt there is no need of faith.

    We can all agree that God uses flawed and sinful people. Obviously, all have sinned so there are only flawed and sinful people available for Him to use. But heresy is where men teach and proclaim as a doctrine of God that which is anathema to what God has already revealed in His Word. Common sense and a review of the bible should convince us that although God uses sinners, He does not pour out His spirit through heretics who make a mockery of His Word.

    Deuteronomy 13 tells us even if we see great signs and miracles from someone who teaches another gospel we are not to follow Him.

    And church discipline demands that heresies be confronted and corrected, not allowed and excused

     
  • At August 14, 2008 6:55 AM , Blogger Pamela said...

    The Wagner article is a pile of GARBAGE. There should not have been a consideration of 'aligning' or approving something if there were doctrinal issues. PERIOD. Leadership are supposed to protect the rest of us from mess like this. When the rank-and-file can see what was happening JUST BY READING THEIR BIBLES but the leaders did not or did but refused to speak out, something is dreadfully wrong with the church leadership in the USA. Charisma Magazine is not innocent or gullible as Lee Grady stated in his article. There have been many warnings throughout all of this. The 'questions' presented were not with the urgency that they should have been presented with. Any move of God that tells people to not judge what they hear is dangerous and an easy set up for satan to do his dirty work. Unfortunately Charisma did this by referring to people as the 'religious sanitation police' that were sincerely judging the demonic madness being presented as from the Holy Sprit. This is not shooting the wounded. We do not have an international voice. However Charisma Magazine, GodTV and the like do. They told the world that those of us that questioned this were against God, did not want God or were wrong for obeying what the word said about judging what we hear.

    It is time for leaders that will clean up the mess being promoted by Christian media as the gospel and supernatural moves of God. If Christian media will not judge something before reporting it they need to shut their businesses down. EVERY CHRISTIAN, not just Christian leaders are to judge. We have every right or else the Bible would never have told us to beware of false prophets, false apostles or false teachers.

     
  • At August 14, 2008 7:42 AM , Blogger Jeff T. said...

    I agree that we shoudl all be praying for Todd and his family but prayer is NOT all that's needed. The Church, particularly the Pentecostal side of the Church, has sadly failed to understand that "Those who do not learn from teh past are destinedto repeat it."

    There has to be a seriosu examination of the apostolic structure in the Pentecostal movement and someone (or a gorup of people) need to SPECIFICALLY anser these questions:

    What CHANGES are going to be made in order to prevent this form happening agian in a couple of years?

    How was Todd able to do so much whacky stuff ("Bam!") and still be respected by hundreds of thousands of people? Is it possible there's a thorough lack of Bible teaching in teh Pentecostal church? If there was solid Bible teaching going on, the fruit of it would be discernment. Period.

    My heart is not to bash anyone but to simply point out that if SPECIFIC solutions aren't sought, this will happen again. And anyone who genuinely cares about the Kingdom understands this.

    Just as anyone who quesitons the US government is now dubbed an "America hater", so anyone who questions a Charistmatic leader is called "blind to the work of the Spirit". This is incredibly dangerous...

     
  • At August 14, 2008 8:27 AM , Blogger sidefall said...

    Steve,

    All I can say is that if you think that John Arnott, Ché Ahn and Bill Johnson (and Peter Wagner for that matter) have stellar reputations, then you are living with your head in the clouds. Many people regard them as major-league heretics.

    Who appointed them as apostles? By endorsing Todd they showed incredible lack of judgement and proved that they don't have the hotline to God that they claim.

    All the warning signs were present right from the start of this "revival" - it's a sorry state of affairs when the majority of leaders ignore them and condemn those discerning Christians who do raise very serious concerns.

    I would also question whether what was happening in Lakeland had anything to do with God or an "anointing" as you say - at best it was a load of emotional hype (ie man-made), at worst it was a scheme of the enemy.

    Yes, we must pray for Todd, his family, and the millions of people who've been deceived by this nonsense. But we must also put our own house in order and expel the charlatans and false teachers from our midst. Unfortunately, as so many business empires (including your own) depend on the revenue they bring, I can't see this happening.

     
  • At August 14, 2008 8:32 AM , Blogger Randy said...

    Why does the language have to escalate and be exaggerated. The statement that came out from the Bentley leadership said that they were separated and were recommending "a time of sabbatical in order to seek reconciliation within their marriage".
    Lee Grady's article reported that the marriage "is ending". It is a far cry from over and for him to jump to this conclusion is exactly the verbage and assumptions that the enemy wants. You all are speaking of divorce as if it is foregone conclusion. Name ONE couple in the world that has not had problems.
    He continues to "Bash" Todd and the outpouring. Lee is doing nothing but exemplifying the religious and judgmental spirit that Kills their own when they are having troubles. Jesus did not do this. He loved those that were down. The word say's that those that are mature should love and help restore, not kill. All I hear out of Lee and so many others is hate and judgement.

    I am ashamed that this kind of article could go out and cause more destruction.
    "you without sin, cast the first stone".

     
  • At August 14, 2008 8:45 AM , Blogger Jennifer said...

    Thank you for stating your comments in love. I know this is a very difficult time for the church as a whole and that problems have existed. I think that it is important to keep in mind that this is the failure of MAN and that God is God and DID do great things in Florida, even though man has failed in the process. Thank you for promoting correction. I pray that it will be received and healing will take place. Thank you for promoting restoration and forgiveness, and that we need to help those who are hurting, rather than simply to kick them and discredit everything they have done, or that the Lord has done through their ministry. I truly appreciate your leadership in this! God forgive us all...

     
  • At August 14, 2008 8:49 AM , Blogger All American Boy said...

    How many times are we going to watch history repeat itself before we establish clear and biblical standards of what a revival really looks like? When will we have the courage to reject error BEFORE it turns into tragedy? How long will Charisma and FIMB hedge their bets on these ministries only to become Monday morning prophets once the error has manifested for all to see the consequences? Is this the kind of leadership that evolves when magazine ad revenues and the ministry of the watchman come into conflict? Is this the kind of leadership that evolves when subscriptions are competing with scriptures?

    Grady: You are a prophet, but if you are under editorial pressure not to call out error before the day of destruction for the sake of "Unity" or "Responsibility" then you have been yoked by a spirit of charismatic spiritual correctness. You may need to shake off this yoke so that you may speak for God unfettered in His timing, not the timing of man.

    Do you know why so many charismatic revivalists have fallen? Do you know why so many "revivals" have withered and shipwrecked? It's not because the enemy was attacking a move of God. If that were the case then why is it that evangelicals like Billy Graham and Greg Laurie have never had such problems? It's because these men are solid in the Word and in character! It's the Charismatics that keep falling on their faces because they moved away from God in doctrine and practice and they became fair game for the enemy to destroy them! Thus the divorces, thus the homosexual affairs, etc.

    Consider the words of a true Apostle in I Cor 4:6 "Now brothers, I have applied these things to myself and to Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying 'DO NOT GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN.' Then you will not take pride in one man over against another."

    Let him who has an ear hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches,
    "You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds."

    Did Jezebel actually teach sexual sin, or was it just that the pollution of her doctrinal error led people into it? Did the false prophetess actually tell people to worship idols, or was it the drunkeness that her teaching produced which caused them to stumble into it?

    It's ironic that Roberts Liardon wrote a book detailing the history of so many charismatic tragedies called "God's Generals". Then he went on to add to that history of tragedy in his own life.

    Unfortunatly this perennial phenomenon is still being misdiagnosed by Spirit filled leadership. The problem is not a lack of covering. Look at all the covering Bentley had! The problem is not a lack of prayer. The problem is man made doctrine is being put into practice and no one with a voice in the Charismatic press or leadership has the courage to denounce and reject it.

    Satan has been masquerading as the Holy Spirit and people have invited him in and coronated him the belle of the ball. Why then do we wonder that there is so much killing, stealing and destroying in our ranks?

     
  • At August 14, 2008 9:49 AM , Blogger Grace said...

    Thank you for a very balanced summary of this situation. The lifestyle of any evangelist or pastor greatly used of God is usually open to extreme investigation in the same manner as the way we treat our secular celebrities. It is an incredible challenge to live under such a microscope.

    We will pray ~ primarily for healing and wisdom for all involved.

     
  • At August 14, 2008 10:12 AM , Blogger Steve said...

    This whole story brings for me serious questions about peter Wagner's "Apostolic" ministry. Where in the bible do we find such a title as "Presiding Apostle of the International Coalition of Apostles" and competing "streams" of apostles?

    This whole unbiblical "apostolic ministry" thing smacks of a 20th century adaptation of expired 1st century stories for the purspoe of accumulating personal power and needs to be rebuked.

    Brother Wagner's commentarty on this website sounds too much like covering your butt after the fact, diambiguation and "don't blame me."

    If brother Wagner wants to be respected as the Pope of the Chraismatic apostles then he needs to apologize for this misuse of scripture, and rebuke any and all character issues in leaders who are to be "above reproach."

     
  • At August 14, 2008 10:45 AM , OpenID sbrogden said...

    Anyone who thinks Tobb Bentley's "ministry" is from God is deceived. Bentley appears to already have spiritual father, his name is Satan.

     
  • At August 14, 2008 2:24 PM , Blogger Rev. Paul said...

    Thank you Steve, Grady & Charisma for your insightful and courageous articles regarding the fall out of what have become the 'Lakeland Outpouring' & Bentley's ministry. - However, the problem is...It's coming a little too Late!

    I'm Disappointed that Charisma Magazine supported this movement & Bentley's ministry in FL without reservation, and now acts as if they have always known this to be what it's turning out to be, from inception.

    When I read Steve's 'Last Word' in Charisma's July Edition, and hear him say: "What's happening in Lakeland, Florida is exciting..." I felt something must be wrong! May I please state the following: 1. The fact that thousands of people gather together [with the help of promotions/ coverages from a popular TV Network] for a 'meeting', doesn't mean that's God!; 2. The fact that Miracles occur in any meeting, doesn't mean it's God; 3. The fact that someone says an 'Angel', 'Christ' or a 'Spirit' appeared to them...doesn't mean that's an Angel of God, Jesus Christ or a Spirit from God that appeared to them. Inability to discern and know when anyone or any experience is genuinely from God or not, - leads to error and deception! And unfortunately, many, [both the vessel[s] being used & many followers & leaders] have already fallen into that error & deception!

    I also take exception to the point being made that the 'Lakeland Outpouring' is the greatest revival since Azusa...that's falsely misleading & simply not True!

    I believe Leaders in the Body of Christ with a 'Voice' & the Christian media [Charisma, TV Networks, etc] should be much more Discerning, when there is any so called 'revival', 'movement' or ministry that comes into limelight; They should be bold and courageous enough to Identify with it when it is genuine; & Distance themselves from it when it is not from God or operates in error or deception - especially when all the signs are already there! Any thing less than that is a Failure on their part.

    I'd conclude by saying that: I believe Bentley wanted to work for God when he started earlier in ministry, but he fell into error & deception - without knowing it - the devil came to him as an 'angel of light' and mislead him - without his knowing it; Then he operated under that same deception - without most leaders & the Christian media knowing it, & they also followed him into error & deception.

    Those of us, [who may not have a voice, but through experiences in these things] have always known what's really going on - & it's called - DECEPTION - the devil is a Master in playing that game!

    May God Restore Bentley - first, Spiritually, & deliver him from the enemy's error & deception; & Heal & Restore his marriage & family too! That's my Prayer for him! Amen.

    Dr. Paul

     
  • At August 14, 2008 2:30 PM , Blogger Rev. Paul said...

    Thank you Steve, Grady & Charisma for your insightful and courageous articles regarding the fall out of what have become the 'Lakeland Outpouring' & Bentley's ministry. - However, the problem is...It's coming a little too Late!

    I'm Disappointed that Charisma Magazine supported this movement & Bentley's ministry in FL without reservation, and now acts as if they have always known this to be what it's turning out to be, from inception.

    When I read Steve's 'Last Word' in Charisma's July Edition, and hear him say: "What's happening in Lakeland, Florida is exciting..." I felt something must be wrong! May I please state the following: 1. The fact that thousands of people gather together [with the help of promotions/ coverages from a popular TV Network] for a 'meeting', doesn't mean that's God!; 2. The fact that Miracles occur in any meeting, doesn't mean it's God; 3. The fact that someone says an 'Angel', 'Christ' or a 'Spirit' appeared to them...doesn't mean that's an Angel of God, Jesus Christ or a Spirit from God that appeared to them. Inability to discern and know when anyone or any experience is genuinely from God or not, - leads to error and deception! And unfortunately, many, [both the vessel[s] being used & many followers & leaders] have already fallen into that error & deception!

    I also take exception to the point being made that the 'Lakeland Outpouring' is the greatest revival since Azusa...that's falsely misleading & simply not True!

    I believe Leaders in the Body of Christ with a 'Voice' & the Christian media [Charisma, TV Networks, etc] should be much more Discerning, when there is any so called 'revival', 'movement' or ministry that comes into limelight; They should be bold and courageous enough to Identify with it when it is genuine; & Distance themselves from it when it is not from God or operates in error or deception - especially when all the signs are already there! Any thing less than that is a Failure on their part.

    I'd conclude by saying that: I believe Bentley wanted to work for God when he started earlier in ministry, but he fell into error & deception - without knowing it - the devil came to him as an 'angel of light' and mislead him - without his knowing it; Then he operated under that same deception - without most leaders & the Christian media knowing it, & they also followed him into error & deception.

    Those of us, [who may not have a voice, but through experiences in these things] have always known what's really going on - & it's called - DECEPTION - the devil is a Master in playing that game!

    May God Restore Bentley - first, Spiritually, & deliver him from the enemy's error & deception; & Heal & Restore his marriage & family too! That's my Prayer for him! Amen.

    Dr. Paul

     
  • At August 14, 2008 2:56 PM , Blogger Pamela said...

    I also pray that there will be repentance from the Christian media that came out and attacked their 'lower' brothers and sisters that had no real influence in stopping this. It is sad that when those that sincerely questioned were vilified using bully pulpits but when it comes crashing down you do not see the same fervor. In the past decade I have become pretty cynical when it comes to Christian media. The Bible tells every believer to judge the teachings we hear and flee from false teachings. Unfortunately the bully pulpits said not to obey the word and called those names that did. It did not have to end like this when there were plenty of warnings out there that were ignored.

    Many years ago I almost got sucked into this madness. This is why I immediately rejected the Lakeland meetings when I first heard of them in April. I just saw the same pattern that I experienced in a local church here. By the grace of God I did not embrace the weirdness that I saw from an offshoot of the Toronto Blessing. That same church has fully embraced what was going on in Lakeland. This is a dreadful thing. There are many people like myself that were in the midst of the madness and have some helpful things to share. I am not an ordained minister BUT I am a Christian that tries to live according to the scriptures and attempts to discern what I see according to God's word. My experience with this was a dreadful thing to watch. I did not get deluded with the supernatural experiences as such. What happened to me was that a total distrust in the capability and/or the will of leadership to discern what was a true supernatural work of God or not. What also really hurt me was seeing what happened when those that did accepted the false spirits as from God. I shudder to think long about those days. Thank God I got past that and did not lose my faith. I knew not to equate the madness I saw with the Lord Jesus Christ.

    I feel really bad about this, especially how it imploded. HOWEVER I'm glad it ended before more people got damaged. I believe that TB was very sincere and wanted to follow the Lord after his dramatic conversion. He just did not get the right grounding in God's word early. The crazy prophetic people got to him early. I pray that his family can be restored AND that he breaks himself free from the crazy people and get with those that care about him enough to tell him the truth in love and pray him and his family through. There is great hope for him and those that have been hurt by all of this.

    I would encourage anyone that find themselves disillusioned to run to Jesus and cry out for help. He will graciously meet you where you are and walk you through to victory and restoration. He did that for me a few years ago. I would also encourage them to never ever take a preacher's word just because the preacher say it is from God. Study and know the word for yourself. Do not be afraid to not embrace something a leader does if it does not line up with the Bible. NEVER AGAIN listen to a minister that tells you not to judge what you hear. That is against the word of God. You have every right to judge. Even though there are some excesses present in the Word of Faith movement the one thing I took to heart was when they told you to study the word and make sure what was being taught was from the word. That is probably the only thing that I embraced from them:) As I stated I did not embrace what I began to see. My error was that I stayed thinking that I should stay and pray for change. This is where the verses that speak about fleeing from false teachers should have come up in my mind. They did not unfortunately. You can pray for those that are preaching wrong doctrine without being at the meeting. You can pray at home. The Lord will hear you just the same.

    Again I sincerely hope and pray that the people around him that know the truth will get around him (and that he will receive them), love him and his family through this and teach him how to discern the right spirit from wrong. May the Lord guide us through this. This is what we can do. HOWEVER the powers that be must change and become more discerning or else we will see something way worse than this. Hopefully they have learned their lesson. Hopefully we all have and that we will not see a repeat.

     
  • At August 14, 2008 3:23 PM , Blogger Onesimus said...

    Who is promoting FALSE CHRISTS and FALSE ANOINTINGS?
    The church today idolises the “anointed” Christian Superstar. These Superstars can be individual big name preachers, or they can be well known centres of “REVIVAL” or “REFRESHING”. Many Christians put a lot of faith in these Superstars and invest significant quantities of time and money in seeking the anointed ministry they offer.

    I have to confess I was one of those seekers. I’d run from conference to conference; from speaker to speaker, and I’d buy as many of the tapes and books I could afford (I admit the “tapes” reference probably shows my age!). However, looking back with honesty, I can see that I never received what I was led to expect – because my expectations were misdirected. Not only was I being careless by running here and there to seek an imparted blessing from God, I was being disobedient!
    It is now clear to me that chasing after “anointed” ministers, or groups that claim to be spreading “the anointing”, is the VERY thing that Jesus warned believers against in Matthew 24:23-26


    Then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ! Or, There! Do not believe it.
    For false Christs (anointed ones) and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders; so much so that, if it were possible, they would deceive even the elect. Behold, I have told you beforehand.
    Therefore if they shall say to you, Behold, He is in the desert! Do not go out. Behold, He is in the secret rooms! Do not believe it.

    Taking into account that the title “Christ” means anointed one, how many of these big name preachers are claiming to be specially anointed? So when we rush off to places because the anointed ones are there… we have ignored Jesus’ warning and we have opened ourselves to deception.

    When we rush off to conferences to hear their imported “anointed” guest preachers (usually at a price of course) – or to any other place where “anointed” ministers are advertised we are disobeying Jesus’ SPECIFIC and clear warning and opening ourselves to deception. We don’t need to chase the anointing – in fact we are warned and commanded not to do so.
    The term “anointing” is used in scripture ONLY to refer to the anointing of believers with the Holy Spirit (or a literal anointing with oil as a type of the Holy Spirit). There are NO alternative anointings in scripture and no anointings by any other name. I suggest great suspicion be shown when you hear of any specifically named anointing (for example “warrior anointing”). I can not see scripture supporting such a thing. The same goes for individuals who claim they have a special anointing not shared by others.

    As Christians we are no less anointed than any other Christian no matter how famous or high profile they may be. If you are in Christ “the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as His anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true and no lie, and as He has taught you, abide in Him.” (1 Jn 2:27)
    God’s anointing isn’t increased according to the level of celebrity someone attains, neither does it increase according to the amount of TV air time they have. We do not need to seek the “anointing” of other people. Instead we turn to the source of the “anointing” – our Heavenly Father, through the Lord Jesus Christ.

     
  • At August 14, 2008 7:39 PM , Blogger Believer said...

    Steve, you said those men have a "steller reputations." I have grave issues with doctrine right out of Johnson's book, and you must not have read it. I posted this under Gen. Dissussion Forums on Charisma. FOR ME, THIS IS VERY SERIOUS AND NO JOKE!! I was given Bill Johnson’s book, “When Heaven Invades Earth” two years ago by a well-meaning person in my church. I was bothered by many erroneous teachings in it, and laid it on the shelf for a later time. When he came to town last Fall, I picked the book back up, then I refused to attend his meetings. This portion of his writings on page 141 greatly impacted my decision:

    "On many occasions laughter has filled a room, bringing healing to broken hearts. Gold dust sometimes covers people's faces, hands or clothing during worship or ministry. Oil sometimes appears on the hands of His people; and it especially happens among children. A wind has come into a room with no open windows, doors, vents, etc. At some locations, believers have seen an actual cloud of His presence appearing over the heads of worshiping people. We've also had the fragrance of heaven fill a room. In my own experience the fragrance of heaven filled our car while Beni and I were worshiping on a short trip. It lasted for about 30 minutes, and was a smell that I could actually taste, similar to granules of sugar sprinkled on my tongue. I have seen the small gems that suddenly appeared in people's hands as they worshiped God. Since early in 1998 we have had feathers fall in our meetings. At first I thought birds were getting into our air-conditioning ducts, but then they started falling in other rooms of the church not connected with he same ductwork. They now fall most anywhere we go-airports, homes, restaurants, offices, and the like. I mention this phenomenon because it seems to offend many that fully embrace this move of God. Jerrel Miller, editor of The Remnant a newspaper whose purpose is to record the events surrounding this revival, took a lot of heat when he reported this unusual manifestation. Those who criticized his report are participants in this revival. It's easy once we've made some adjustments in our belief system about what God can and will do to think that we have stretched far enough. ..........God will violate our list of acceptable manifestations. .....I do refuse to be embarrassed over what God is dong...... His manifestations, while offensive to the minds of many, are limitless in number, and are simple indicators of God's presence and purpose. Why are they necessary? Because He wants to take us farther, and we can only get there by following signs. Our present understanding of Scripture can only take us so far."

    MY GOD PEOPLE, DID YOU READ THAT??? HE IS SAYING THE WORD OF GOD IS NOT ENOUGH!

     
  • At August 14, 2008 8:59 PM , Blogger Pamela said...

    I had never heard of Bill johnson until this madness blew up in Lakeland. Our present understanding of Scripture can only take us so far. This man does not understand that the Bible says that the Holy Spirit will teach us. The Bible also says that the Holy Spirit will show us things to come. It also says that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. That is the most amazing thing I have ever heard. I almost hesitated to say that because I'm sincerely afraid that with all the demonic revelations that something more outlandish may come out as a revelation from God. if the teaching of the Holy Spirit about God's word is not enough for him he is wide open to believe lies. All I can say is Lord have mercy.

    May the body of Christ wake up and obey the word when it says to judge teachings (test the spirits--ministers) in 1 John. Make it clear in your minds that you have every right to do this. When you hear something that does not line up with the word reject it and RUN FOR YOUR LIFE. If you hear a minister tell you not to judge what is happening RUN FOR YOUR LIFE. If you hear the word of God and it contradicts what you are hearing or seeing and you choose to reject the word you have just told the Lord and satan that you want to believe a lie. I would beg those that currently refuse to acknowledge God's word to please reconsider your path. Otherwise your entire life will be filled with these type of disasters where people are disillusioned and left wandering. Developing your own personal walk with the Lord is the best thing that a Christian can do. That was the whole point of Christ dying. He made a way for each person that chose to lay down their lives to follow Christ would have access to/intimate fellowship with God the Father. That right there will allow a Christian to take a journey that will satisfy where they will not be drawn away with the sensational mess that was in Lakeland. I am excluding those that were truly born again and healed by God's power. However the fact that people may have been genuinely saved or heal will not excuse the fact that Todd told people to believe in the angel, not Christ. The doctrine must change or else we will see another repeat, especially if Christian media refuse to judge according to the word before saying that something is from God prematurely.

     
  • At August 15, 2008 1:11 AM , OpenID NicholeB22 said...

    This article was written so much more nicely than Lee Grady's article. I felt as though Grady too harshly critized this situation. We are all human beings and any of us could easily make the same mistakes, especially when you are elevated nationally and even globally so quickly. The problem is that people want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Take what you can from Todd Bentley, Lakeland, or anything associated with it. It doesn't mean that God was not in it. As I heard someone say, "chew the meat and spit out the bones." Nobody is going to get everything perfect. If I were Todd Bentley, I would want mercy, so that is what I will show him.

    On another note, I am appalled that Charisma, a Christian magazine, would allow some of these forums I have read on the website. There are hundreds of people who,it seems,are only posting negative, hateful, non-Christian rhetoric, and both they and Charisma should be ashamed. Also, it seems some people just want to argue and debate the Word of God. It's disgusting.

     
  • At August 15, 2008 1:46 AM , Blogger prod harris said...

    What a cop out.

    C Peter Wagner and his buddies on stage that night have a lot to answer for.

    They pump the Lakeland thing up then scatter like cockroaches when the light is turned on in a pityful attempt to shift blame.

    It should be evident to the whole world how lacking that crew are in discernment & genuine prophetic gifting.

    There are plenty through history who have been in revival day in day out for years without crashing so that excuse is pretty shallow.

    Why cant Colonel Sanders & his chickens show some courage, step up to the plate & say "we were wrong".

    Its simply easier to blame the devil & accuse anyone speaking against Bentley of shooting our wounded.

    As far as I am concerned, he was never one of "ours" anyhow. Im glad this is being brought into the light for the sake of the flock.

     
  • At August 15, 2008 3:31 AM , Blogger sidefall said...

    This is for NicoleB22, two comments up.

    I take the other view. Lee Grady's article was much more realistic but still didn't go far enough. Although I'm pleased that Strang has admitted that there are problems, as I said earlier, he is living in a fantasy land.

    The problems with Todd and Lakeland were far more than the occasional slip-ups we all make in our human weakness. They were multiple serious errors in doctrine and practice that were done deliberately and repeated many times.

    We would not accept a muslim, mormon, or jehovah's witness preaching in our churches, and justify it by saying take the good and ignore the bad.

    And likewise, it's impossible to drink from a poisoned well. You can't separate the good from the bad.

    As Christians, we are called to discern, to study the scriptures Berean-style, to guard against false teachers and prophets. Sadly, many of our leaders have failed to do this and it's been down to the Average Joe's to do this using the main platform available to us - the internet.

    I don't condone non-christian rhetoric, but warning people about this deception is far more christian than letting them be led astray.

     
  • At August 15, 2008 4:42 AM , Blogger Pamela said...

    Remember there will ALWAYS be people that equate discerning and exposing dangerous/false doctrine as being unChristian. People seem to forget that the Apostle Paul and I think the Apostle John NAMED THE NAMES of false teachers. Paul pretty regularly went between the eyes when dealing with false doctrine. Both of them tell us to judge wrong doctrine. I guess people like Nicole would say that Paul and John were unChristian for saying anything against false teachers. We are NOT supposed to be the ones that have to chew the meat and spit out the bones. The leaders are supposed to have done that. Those that agree that Todd's teachings are from God are some that don't know the difference between meat and bones. They also reveal that they do not know God's word or even care about it. Judging the reactions that those that accept everything as God against those that just quote scripture. This is why it is so important for every Christian to study the word, be like the Bereans that studied, learn of the Holy Spirit and judge preachers. I guess those things are unchristian also according to some. What a shame.

     
  • At August 15, 2008 6:09 AM , Blogger William Fawcett said...

    Randy said:

    "Why does the language have to escalate and be exaggerated. The statement that came out from the Bentley leadership said that they were separated and were recommending "a time of sabbatical in order to seek reconciliation within their marriage".
    Lee Grady's article reported that the marriage "is ending"."


    Randy, the statement by the Fresh Fire Board make no such reference to a sabbatical. They did state

    "We are hopeful that the outcome will include restoration, but we can make neither promise nor guarantee."

    What you, and perhaps others probably don't understand is that they are not undergoing an informal separation as is sometimes done when a marriage situation become too hot for proximity - in order to receive counseling.

    Under Canadian law, a legal separation must occur for 9 months in order to finalize a divoce. Bently filed for a legal separation, the first stage in a divorce.

    And so statements by Strang and Grady are neither unwise nor unwarranted.

    Your quotation came not from the "Bentley leadership" but from the gullible folks over at God TV who stated:

    "It is GOD TV’s position that marriage is a foundational cornerstone to those families called to ministry and would believe that those who have spiritual oversight for Todd and Shonnah’s ministry will recommend a time of sabbatical for the family in order to seek reconciliation within their marriage should these reports be accurate."

    Here's another Quote, a prophetic word (Thus saith the Lord) from Wendy Alec, owner of God TV:

    The Lord just spoke to me and said, this IS what will happen tommorrow night (June 8)...
    Jesus said "I am coming in person."


    Video and commentary at

    http://tinyurl.com/falseprophecy

    -Bill Fawcett
    Harrisonburg, VA

     
  • At August 15, 2008 11:55 PM , Blogger prod harris said...

    If these guys arent false teachers, false prophets, wolves, preachers of other gospels, you know, all the stuff Jesus & the Holy Ghost warned us about - and - if we are really in the last days - then who should we be watching out for.

    The Harlot Roman Catholic Church can only be part of it, the mormons, 7th day ellen g whitists and JWs can only be a part of it too. There are some pretty big gaps still to be filled.

    So, if these guys arent it, what are we supposed to be watching out for?

     
  • At August 18, 2008 3:44 PM , Blogger Karen said...

    What is the obsession with Todd's tattoos? Man looks at the outer appearance, but God looks at the heart. We can have discernment over teaching and fruit, but NONE of us can tell diddly squat about someone by their appearance! That's a judgment call that no one, but Jehovah God, can make. That's Christianity 101! It seems that many judgmental and cowardly Christians have been waiting to point the finger and say I told you so. Who benefits from that? The time to intervene was before the fall, now our job is to pick up the pieces of our brothers and sisters and cover them in love and apply the healing and restoring love of our Savior. Come Holy Spirit, comfort those who are broken.

     
  • At August 18, 2008 4:32 PM , Blogger Mike Mike said...

    A man puts so much into his ministry, effectively "laying down" the most important aspect of his life, and his personal suffering is not enough. It's amazing how many have the faith to lay down the best parts of their life to expose themselves themselves to criticism that runs no deeper than than his tatoos, and with less grace than the the average secular accuser. How fitting that the comments immediately follow an article where Obama gets no credit for what he said, but is only credited with with what the editors want to believe that he thinks. I'm not sure when Charisma developed the power of telepathy to state that Obama didn't know his own mind, but that Charisma did. A life built on slander and gossip doesn't show much fruit.

     
  • At August 19, 2008 3:22 AM , Blogger tobymom said...

    Who I am concerned about is those 3kids. My husband left me with 3 children when I was a fervent Christian and I had to raise them alone. There were alot of serious problems over the years as a result. This wife may have tried to say something I don't know, but the revival went on. What a mess! Not much of a church goer anymore, I went to the revival about 12 times; drove alone for over an hour to and from and it brought me much closer to Jesus. So I am grateful for that. But I am very disappointed now. I knew the last time I went and took my daughter that the annointing had lifted off this man and he had sinned probably. I went home and called my Christian sister in Baltimore and told her, "something is not right and somethng is not right in his marraige I think". I am not judging here either. This was weeks before everything. I never went back. God does give us discernment but we don't always want to listen. One thing though-I cannot say enough about Roy Field's wonderful worship he led. He is the real hero of this revial to me. In the end, you can only trust in JESUS because He is the only one who NEVER lets us down, although you expect to be able to trust a revivalist or minister too.

     
  • At August 19, 2008 3:40 AM , Blogger Pamela said...

    tobymom, the Holy Spirit did His job. It's hard to hear from the Lord that something may be going on with the minister. We want to believe the good in people and wonder if the enemy is trying to hinder the ministry by lying to you. However one can train themselves to a place where they can discern the right voice from the wrong one. 1 John tells us this, especially chapter 2. It is evident that you sought Jesus first and not the signs, wonders and miracles. The Lord will meet a person that seeks Him first. A well respected minister from another country reported that the attendance at the meetings had decreased some in recent weeks. It appears that many were having the same discernment as you did. The Holy Spirit did His job.

    Todd and his family are in the hands of the Lord. I too feel for their children. They are sufferi