The Emperor Has No Clothes
When I was in Canada last week on vacation, I picked up a Canadian newspaper with a full-page article about revivalist Todd Bentley titled "Bentley Bends." It appeared in the National Post on August 19, and though it put the typical secular journalist spin on anything having to do with Pentecostals or miracles, it was surprisingly gentle in telling about Bentley's fall. If you're interested in reading it you can click here.
Meanwhile ministry to Bentley continues. I'm thankful that the Christian leaders who were set over him in the June 23 "alignment and commissioning" ceremony at the Lakeland Outpouring are ministering to him behind the scenes. In an earlier Strang Report I had called on them to step up and intervene in this situation, a day or two after news of Bentley's separation was made known.
Two of the three leaders were out of the country and later challenged me via e-mail by saying that I had made it sound as if they would not do their jobs unless outsiders put pressure on them. Of course I assumed that they would do their jobs because I know they are men of integrity.
But in the rush of dealing with the situation quickly I did not contact them other than to send them an advance copy of my Strang Report. So, for what it's worth, I apologize for leaving the wrong impression. My reaction was based partly on past observations of situations in which spiritual discipline needed to be applied and those who were supposedly over the person ran for cover.
Others are e-mailing me what various people have written about the situation. If you have not read Dutch Sheets' very in-depth and thoughtful letter about Bentley and the Lakeland Outpouring, I urge you to do so by clicking here. I agree with essentially all that Dutch writes.
Someone else e-mailed me an item from the United Kingdom. We tried to get permission to use it but couldn't contact the author, so I am assuming it is all right to make this point. I was taken by the fact that the person who wrote it rightly comments that many Pentecostals believe "if it's odd, it must be God." I had never heard that expression, but I know his statement is true.
The writer also makes a comparison to the emperor in the old fairy tale by Hans Christian Andersen, The Emperor's New Clothes. Because he relates the story better than I can I quote him here:
There is an old fable that should serve as a pertinent parable for today's church. The story is told of two unscrupulous tradesmen who offered to sell an emperor a quantity of material that was so exquisite that 'only those with the greatest taste and style' could see it. The emperor, not wanting to give the impression that he lacked such finesse, paid an enormous sum for the non-existent material that was then 'made' into a suit of clothes.
It was later announced to his subjects that he would be leaving the palace wearing clothes of such wonder that 'only those with the greatest taste and style' could appreciate it. The crowd, falling into the same trap as the emperor, cheered and shouted at the non-existent apparel.
The ecstasy and applause continued until a small child, who had come to the gathering late and had not heard the intimidating preamble, joined her mother and, pointing to the emperor shouted out loudly, 'Look, Mummy, the emperor is not wearing any clothes!' Only then did the bubble burst.
The e-mail I was sent is so good that I want to share some of the points the author made since I couldn't say it better myself. I wish I had been able to discover his name to give proper credit. He says, in relation to the fable:
We need the simplicity of that childlike voice in today's church.
It is the voice of people [who] refuse to accept that spirituality is "less than" if it is not accompanied by uncontrollable shaking. It is the voice of leaders who, when they see manifestations of the flesh, refuse to be intimidated by the voice of a crowd that declares that "If it's odd, it must be God" and have the courage to say, "Please stop doing that; it's silly."
Those who operate in this gift are almost universally considered to be the party-poopers of Pentecost. Their voice is universally seen as negative, and the body language of those who do not want to hear their message is always, "Why are you trying to stop us when we are having so much fun?"
Yet the Bible tells us to "test the spirits" and "weigh prophecy."
Why, with so many mature leaders present at Bentley's endorsement, was the gift not used or, given what we now know, why was there not a word of knowledge? Why was it that, as millions listened and a prophecy was given that Jesus would appear in person on the platform on a specific date, not one person expressed a word of caution? Could it be the intimidation of crowds, the awe induced by Christian celebrity or the absence of the childlike voice that needed to burst the bubble? What the church should be hungering for today is not "extreme prophetic" but "accurate prophetic."
Why is it then that some people who have gone to Lakeland are seeing things occur in their church that they had not encountered before? The answer is simple. God recognizes and responds to hunger. Leaders heard there was a fire and wanted to be warmed, heard of a well and wanted to be refreshed, and heard there was food and wanted to be fed. That God met them on their journey is yet another expression of His amazing grace.
Please share your thoughts with me about the situation. Meanwhile, pray for Todd and his wife, Shonna. Let's especially pray for Shonna, who received none of the adulation but is experiencing most of the pain.


143 Comments:
At August 28, 2008 3:19 PM ,
Darren Tyler said...
Thanks Mr. Strang for being a voice of reason during these past few months.
I think the only thing that I wonder is if the lessons haven't really been learned. It seems that most of the folks who have said they should have known better are saying it in reference to the fact that this guy had tattoo's and pierced body parts.
I would hope that the lesson we walk away with was He was doing was for the most part was not in the Word. I'm born and raised in a Charismatic environment and believe God still does miracles. I just don't see any example in the Word of Todds methods or ideologies. To me talking with angels with names should be red flag enough.
Connecting tattoo's and piercing to someone not having a valid ministry seems to be a stretch.
At August 28, 2008 3:40 PM ,
Jenni said...
I think there are a lot of questions, many of them raised earlier by Lee Grady, that have never truly been addressed -- questions that had nothing to do with tattoos or marital problems.
Unfortunately, with all the emphasis now on these other issues, I doubt that the questions about some of Bentley's core beliefs will ever be addressed.
At August 28, 2008 3:51 PM ,
Anonymous said...
I have not been to Lakeland, just watched it several times on TV. I read the reports and praises about the Revival and was glad so many people got healed or blessed.Also how many people questioned his credibility based on tattoos, but I know God looks at the heart, not tattoos. God says in the Ampl.B. that he has tattood a picture of us in the palm of his hands....
Also separation from his wife should not cause such a wave of condemnation about him, may be lack of wisdom, because if you want a marriage to work , you need some time for your family, not just ministry.
All the other things about angels, Jesus coming on a certain day that is a different story. But if it was a deception which I do not know, millions were drowned in it, just like Jesus said in the last days it would happen. So for conclusion I would say, we should all spend more time in prayer and the Word and ask God for better discernment and listening to Holy Spirits leading.
Let's not judge T. Bentley but pray for him. That is what he needs most as a wounded soldier, because we never know when we are one.
At August 28, 2008 3:56 PM ,
Anonymous said...
I went to Lakeland once. The praise and worship was excellent and went on for 1-1/2 hours. We were all "high" from the long praise and entering. Others spoke and read testimonies for 1/2 hr. before Todd came out.
I had felt like I was very high up in a hot air balloon and the longer Todd Bentley spoke and prayed, it was like the air was being let out of the balloon and the mood definitely was deflating.
In spite of the way I felt, I went up for the altar call. I was uneasy but could not put my finger on anything. Then a man next to me in a wheel chair got up as if he'd been healed. He got up out of the wheelchair better than I could have. He had a cane and "struggled" to get to the platform.
I was then extremely uneasy about the goings on and went back to my seat, gathered my things and left. I could not shake the feeling of "unease" and prayed that if this truly was a manifestion from my Lord and Savior that I be called back to Lakeland but if it was not, I wanted no part of it.
The next day I read on Mr. Bentley's website about his angel he met with in his room. That was confirmation to me that I was right in feeling uneasy.
For months I kept hearing people talk about Lakeland and how wonderful it was. I too should have been much more confident in that still small voice that was warning me to leave - that something was not right.
I never was called back to Lakeland and I am still not sure what it was all about - whether Todd Bentley was truly saved and called by God or not.
I learned that discernment is lacking, very lacking, in many people today.
At August 28, 2008 3:56 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Mr Strang, I am an unknown pentecostal pastor-with a small circle of influence-i picked up on the Bentley issues and tried to sound a warning to those in my small circle of influence and was 'boo-ed'! There was an absolute willful ignorance of his false doctrine and new age type claims...and I was shamed and chided for speaking negatively..
I am afraid that those outside of the pentecostal circles looking in are correct in their judgment against us...we are moving away from the genuine supernatural to the wierd. God help us all
At August 28, 2008 4:00 PM ,
Ray Curle said...
What surprises me is that no one in the US pentecostal leadership appears to be questioning the validity of
Bob Jones's ministry... a large influence on Todd and others and yet his promotion of angel visitations and anyone can trip to heaven whenever they want to teachings are becoming more and more bizarre?
At August 28, 2008 4:09 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Regarding the tattoos; Todd gave a very detailed "Dark Night of the Soul" season he experienced, so I think that gives us an explanation of his tattoos. Why he chose the ones he did, well, ask him. My brother after getting saved got himself more tattoos but only this time it was scripture. Did he get more scripture tattoos? No he didn't! Does this mean he lost his salvation? No! Does this mean he's in rebellion? No he's not!!!!
At August 28, 2008 4:26 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Now would be a great time to identify some of the other flagrant errors going on in the body of Christ! Dutch Sheets said in his email letter that the "Church has been raped" - Well, I say She is still being raped by heresy of the worst kind. Why not ask Andrew Strom about the "sensual, sexual worship? experiences with Jesus" (in the spirit of course) being taught by Toronto and the Kansas City IHop Group! There is plenty of info on this on the Internet as well. I am not an apostle or a prophet, but I have discernment like any Holy Spirit believer should have. The Bride of Christ is being defiled (ultimately by Satan through false teachers) just as we near the Second Coming of Jesus when the Bride is supposed to be prepared -without spot or blemish! Please, please check it out and tell us the truth!!! Stop protecting and covering over these defilers who are spots and blemishes in the church!
At August 28, 2008 4:36 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Thank you Mr. Strang & Lee Grady for being a voice of reason in the midst of this chaos.
I can only hope and pray that as it "has hit the fan" concerning Lakeland - that the main issue will be address finally - which was a problem long before the disclosure of the Todd Bentley's ungodly behavior. May Todd turn to the Lord that he might be healed and restored for the sake of his walk with God, His wife and family, and for the sake of the entire Body of CHrist.
Meanwhile again, the problem was big and wide and serious-- and no one ever said a word.
If it was nothing more than Todd's baptising in the name of the Father, Son and BamBam it would be more than enough.
How much is the Body suppossed to put up because signs and wonders are happening? It is no wonder that the "conservatives" look at us and say that we have no regard for the word or doctrine - just signs wonders, and Holy Ghost pazzaz.
It is about time that the leadership, who wisely and publically validated and "covered" Todd, now publically set the record straight concerning the near blasphemous words Todd has spoken (and other unscripturals things he said and did).
What will happen if people start imitating Todd in his baptism methods, as they are in other areas?? If someone doesn't stand up and say loud and clear so far and now further - we will have nothing left.
Please, please, John Arnott, BIll Johnson, Peter Wagner and John Che arise and take the flack if you have to, but do that which is right. For this is something that can divide the entire charismatic camp - and can make one want to run back to the safety of being conservative! Rev. Fran Fernandez
At August 28, 2008 4:43 PM ,
Anonymous said...
I never went to Lakeland but watched God TV for about a month and then began questioning some of what was happening. I stopped watching the revival but still believed God was healing people in Florida. Then I went to see Todd in L.A. I was very sick with bronchitis and really wanted to be home in bed. I had already missed a week of work. When Todd started speaking (not praying) the spirit of God came all over me for about 5- 10 minutes and I got healed from Bronchitis. Within this time the fever I had come with left me and strength came back into my body. I too have questioned some of Todd's beliefs, but I got healed and they was no questioning that. God was in it. God does use men, despite their short comings and faults.
At August 28, 2008 4:45 PM ,
Bob Thomas said...
I've read numerous comments and explanations recently regarding Todd Bentley's style, appearance, and showmanship. I'm struck by two issues that commonly run through these articles:
1. Tattoos & piercings. That appearance to me is an immediate red flag since God is quite clear in both the Old and New Testaments that our bodies are not to be desecrated or defiled. The children of Israel were forbidden to "mark" their bodies by cutting, burning, or "printing" things on them. Today, our bodies are still the temple of God's Spirit and we are to seek maturity and sanctification in them, as well as our souls. Look at those who are deep into sin or demon possessed and what they typically do to their bodies - they mar, burn, cut, heavily tattoo, and pierce their bodies. The underlying driving force is either demonic influence/control or one's hate of his own flesh.
2. Let's be clear: the New Testament describes the spiritual gift of "discerning of spirits", not a gift of discernment. The true spiritual gift involves seeing into the spirit realm and being able to discern between Heavenly beings of God (angels, saints, etc.) or demonic spirits. The repeated use of the word "discernment" in these articles more appropriately would describe human soulish discernment/insight/feelings in the natural realm and not be appropriate for a spiritual context of divine insight into spirit beings (whether good or evil) that are behind a person's motives, sign/wonder/miracles manifested, or words spoken. It is a great distinction between the use of human intellect to "discern" something in the environment or nearby person and the manifestation of the spiritual gift "discerning of spirits".
At August 28, 2008 4:45 PM ,
Don said...
I'm glad it is, finally, possible to raise questions in the charismatic-pentecostal community about TB, without being branded a "heresy hunter."
My wife and I watched Lakeland via computer for about three months straight - delighted about the healings, and the salvations, but perplexed and worried about the near-absence (for a long time) of TB glorifying Jesus rather than "the anointing."
And, like one of the commenters above, I believe this whole thing should bring about some inquiry into the influence of Bob Jones on TB, who claimed early on that he was in almost-daily phone contact with Jones.
I've heard many stories of Bob having excellent words for people, but if Bob ever spoke words of caution or rebuke to TB, we have yet to hear of them. Their phone calls seemed to be about Emma and Winds of Change - and the June 22 - July 22 period - rather than anything suggestive of Bob having a father's role toward TB. Their excitement appeared to be much more about TB receiving healing mantles of dead men, than about preaching the gospel of Jesus with signs following.
To my regret, I pooh-poohed much of my wife's uneasiness about TB, rather than hearing in that uneasiness something from God. Thankfully, however, this entire episode drove us back into the Scriptures' testimonies of non-debatable signs and wonders, as well as into a lot of prayer.
That prayer continues - not only for the Bentley family, but that it will be possible to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ with signs following, without people seeing the signs and immediately assuming they must be demonic.
At August 28, 2008 4:45 PM ,
Marie Natha said...
Has Charisma learned this big lesson? Apparently not!
They just published an article, "San Francisco Church Draws Bay Area Christians The ‘Golden Gate Outpouring’ is heading into its third month of nightly revival meetings."
http://www.charismamag.com/cms/news/archives/082608.php
They'are assuming this thing is a revival -- again, just like they did at Lakeland.
Yet the "pastor" Brodeur of this "revival" went to see Todd at Lakeland to get the anointing and bring it back to San Francisco. And due to this "spirit" he picked up they are now getting visits from demons and thinking they're being targeted by Satan for the good they are doing. How blind can one be? When you open the door to the occult, something ugly is going to step through!! Duh!!
Here's how the article reported one of the demonic guests:
" Brodeur believes the meetings are affecting change in the San Francisco region. He said demons visited several of his leaders shortly after the meetings began this summer. In one instance, his assistant pastor woke up one night with insane, suicidal thoughts, went downstairs at 5 in the morning, sat at the kitchen table, opened his Bible, and shuddered when he saw a dark being seated across from him."
Mr. Strang - perhaps you should send some of your "discerning" leaders over there to exorcise that pastor and his staff.
Strang and Charisma by publishing this story simply verify they have NO discernment whatsoever.
At August 28, 2008 4:55 PM ,
Barry said...
I want to thank Charisma for not letting this subject of discerning the prophetic go into oblivion. For way too long the global church has been saying Amen all too often to prophetic words that were either presumptuous or very emotional, if not wrong and blatantly deceptive. As I believe in the gift of prophecy and the governmental office of a prophet we must spend more time studying the prophets and their words in scripture as opposed to flattering or tickling the emotions of a potential donor or fellow believer in a prayer line. Let's be true and integral ministers of the Word with signs and wonders following.
Years ago, a Bible teacher named Don Basham wrote a book called, "True and False Prophets". Would to God that many people would discern the difference and invest more in the character of Yeshua/Jesus the Messiah.
Cry out to the Lord for the gift of discernment.
In Him,
Barry Segal - Jerusalem
At August 28, 2008 4:55 PM ,
Anonymous said...
We need to pray for discernment and be grounded in the word like never before. Most of us had a check mark in our spirits. Thanks to Lee Grady and Strom for being a spokesman for many of us who did not speak up. I googled, researched, watched youtube on Todd. Just 2 years ago he was preaching, clean and no tattoos and making more sense.He took a break from ministry, marked and pierced himself.This to me speaks of rebellion. As soon as he came back he was put on the pulpit then highlighted worldwide through God.tv, even though he was biblically unbalanced. Where was his accountability? Where is our sense of discernment? We need to be grounded in the word so as not to fall into traps of deception. God have mercy on us.
I do pray for God's grace to reach Todd and his family. May he be grounded on solid ground and may we walk in wisdom and discernment as children of God so as not to bring reproach.
Holy cow, now they are anouncing a lakeland 2 outpouring.
At August 28, 2008 4:59 PM ,
Anonymous said...
I,ve known god all my life and when I met todd I had never experienced the holyspirit as I did,the anointing and the power that came through me to touch and heal people..I personally know todd and shonnah and their children.I love them all. But as personally knowing them I hid My eyes from the problems they had 3 years or more ago. They were human too with problems in the house so I ignored it all but realy deep inside I could sense something not right in my spirit too.No man of god like todd in his position should be acting the way he was.I was confused and just let it go and continued to follow him.Todd has done so much good in lives especially mine and my heart aches for him, shonnah and the kids.I will not judge him.He is my friend and gods child. This is between GOD and Todd now.True humbleness has to happen now.I,m numb from all of this but grateful that we have a god who will take care of it..Shonnah and the kids are feeling as though their world has been torn apart but will come through this. Please pray for shonnah and todd..I love them both
At August 28, 2008 5:02 PM ,
Francis said...
I was blessed by the Lakeland Revival. It challenged me to go out an witness the Gospel and pray for the sick like Jesus did. Todd never claimed to be Jesus, but he did what the early disciples did and what most church leaders are afraid to do because they may seem foolish. I continue to share my faith and pray for the sick. Todd was bold enough to preach. My heart goes out to him. So many Christian leaders spoke critical of him instead of preaching with fire in church on Sunday morning. I still look at some of the clips to see that people can be Baptized in the Holy Spirit. Most churches don't preach and pray in the Holy spirit. At Lakeland Todd allowed the Holy Spirit to come with power and thus miracles....and power. The truth is that most of our Sunday morning worship services are 1.5 hours without miracles. Todd would often say go back home and start a fire...I belive that is what we should do start doing what Jesus and the early disciples did ...turned the world upside down for Christ..Prayer, living holy, Filled with the power of the holy spirit and witness...simple bible but not very popular in the modern day american church....I'm planted in a local church...and the Revival in Lakeland blessed me and my family an showed the world that you can have firey pentecostal services where people are healed, delivered and filled with holy spirit during a church service....bless and heal todd and his wife
At August 28, 2008 5:04 PM ,
michael said...
IN REGARDS TO WHAT WENT ON DURING THE LAKELAND OUTPOURING I HAVE THIS TO SAY: TODD IS NOT GOD AND GOD MOVED IN SPITE OF THE WEAKNESS OF TODD'S FLESH AS GOD HAS DURING MANY OTHER TIMES DURING SOME GREAT REVIVALS OF THE PAST 2000 YEARS OF CHURCH HISTORY.
A CAREFUL STUDY OF BOTH 1&2 CORINTHIANS REVEALS THAT THEY HAD THE GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT, ALL OF THE 5-FOLD MINISTRY INCLUDING THE OFFICE OF THE PROPHET, AND YET IN THE MIDST OF THE SUPERNATURAL, SIN WAS PRESENT IN THE CHURCH THERE AND IT DID NOT KEEP GOD FROM DOING HIS THING. JUST READ 2 CORINTHIANS 12:19-21. AS BAD AS THESE THINGS WERE, GOD STILL MOVED IN THE HEARTS AND LIVES OF SINCERE CHRISTIANS IN THAT CHURCH.
JESUS SAID,"WHERE TWO OR THREE ARE GATHERED TOGETHER IN MY NAME, I AM THERE IN THE MIDST OF THEM."
THERE WERE SOMETIMES AS MANY AS 10,000 PEOPLE GATHERED TOGETHER IN JESUS' NAME DURING THE HEIGHT OF THE LAKELAND REVIVAL.
JUST BECAUSE TODD MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE SHOWED UP AT TIMES, JUST BECAUSE HE MAY HAVE BEEN IN ERROR IN SOME OR MANY AREAS, DOES NOT MEAN THAT GOD DID NOT SHOW UP AND DO GREAT AND MIGHTY THINGS FOR THE HUNGREY WORSHIPERS WHO WERE FULL OF FAITH TOWARD GOD.
AS THE SCRIPTURE SAYS, "WHERE SIN DOTH ABOUND, GRACE DOTH MUCH MORE ABOUND". AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I PERSONALLY KNEW WHO ATTENDED THE MEETINGS THERE.
IF YOU THINK GOD CAN'T USE MEN AND WOMEN OF GOD WHO HAVE FEET OF CLAY AS WELL AS SOMETIMES SINS OF THE FLESH, THEN YOU NEED TO READ THE BOOK, "GOD'S GENERALS" BY ROBERTS LIARDON. I WON'T NAME ALL OF THE PEOPLE MENTIONED IN THAT BOOK, BUT THEY "ALL" MESSED UP IN ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. THEY STILL ACCOMPLISHED MORE IN THEIR LIFETIMES THAN ALL OF THEIR CRITICS PUT TOGETHER EVER DID. (LIKE TODD BENTLEY HAS IN THE PAST 10 YEARS OF HIS MINISTRY.)
YES HE WAS WRONG TO DO THE WRONG THINGS THAT HE DID. BUT WHAT HE NEEDS MOST OF ALL NOW IS DELIVERANCE AND RESTORATION. WHY?
BECAUSE THE GIFTS AND CALLINGS OF GOD ARE WITHOUT REPENTANCE. IN OTHER WORDS, GOD DOESN'T CHANGE HIS MIND ABOUT WHO HE CALLS.
MANY BRAGG ABOUT THE GREAT WELSH REVIVAL IN WALES WHERE GOD USED A YOUNG MAN NAMED EVAN ROBERTS. BUT HAVE YOU EVER READ ABOUT WHAT CAME OUT AFTER THE REVIVAL WAS OVER ABOUT THE "DOUBLE LIFE" AND
"SECRET SIN" THAT HE WAS ENGAGED IN DURING THE ENTIRE TIME THAT THE REVIVAL WAS GOING ON? IT DIDN'T HINDER GOD ALL FROM SAVING MULTIPLIED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN SPITE OF EVAN ROBERTS "SINS OF THE FLESH".
AND IT DIDN'T HINDER GOD FROM SAVING AND HEALING ALL THOSE THOUSANDS DURING THE LAKELAND REVIVAL EITHER.
DR. MICHAEL WILLIAMS
At August 28, 2008 5:18 PM ,
Ronald D. Erickson said...
If people were really healed and raised from the dead, is that now being evaluated the result of demonic activity? Anyone who gives a serious read of the life of Jesus of Nazareth will know He was the center of controversy. There were even 70 disciples whom disqualified themselves from God's Man because they could not see the forest because of the trees, so to say. As far as angelic names are concerned, why are there angelic names in the Bible if it is not important to God? I for one want the angels of God on my side as Elijah did since God is greater than Satan and his kind.
At August 28, 2008 5:29 PM ,
steve said...
The Lord uses many imperfect people to do His work. On the other hand, he expects obedience and holds leaders to a higher standard. This goes beyond Todd Bentley. The anointing is of little value if the servant has not developed personal character. Review all the situations of immoral failure in charismatic/Spirit-filled leaders just in the past 18 months. And for most of them, they go right on ministering as if nothing happened!
We have a "character" crisis in the charismatic/Penteocostal/Spirit-filled churches in America. We need leaders to stand up and require that our leaders develop character. If we don't, we may lose the anointing and favor we have. And when leaders have a moral failure (including being involved in a divorce, either party, as it takes two people to get to that point regardless of who ends up being the culprit), they should be forced to step down by their leaders and take an extended break, more than one year, and get restored, not just go on ministering and advertising as if nothing happened.
Christian media, including Charisma, TBN and the like are partly to blame as they continue to let these leaders operate without repentance and time for restoration. They don't require or look for character in these folks, just the potential "anointing". And they are quick to blame leaders who have developed character for it when others fall rather than take responsibility and take away these leaders' platforms. We have fallen for this myth that the Holy Spirit cares more about anointing and ministry than he does about obedience. He doesn't! And blaming the enemy is a cop-out. Jesus never legitimized human disobedience because of Stan's influence or power.
As I've said, we have a character crisis in our churches, and not just among pastors and worship leaders. We could learn a lesson from our evangelical brothers and sisters about obedience without having to run frightened from a legalistic viewpoint.
I challenge all our national leaders to develop methods to develop and test character in our spiritual leaders, not just the level of their anointing or their level of popularity. Leaders need accountability with known and defined consequaences. We also need to teach them to proactively deal with sin issues in their life before it results in their moral failure, which severely hurts Jesus Christ and His church.
When are we going to say as leaders of this movement, "enough is enough!" Dutch Sheets was right on, but the way.
At August 28, 2008 5:30 PM ,
Anonymous said...
I say a hearty "Amen" to your comments Dr. Williams. The Lakeland events were not done by or for Todd Bentley. And who knows now why he is seperated from his wife? I am a therapist and have seen many marriages that were saved from divorce by properly managed seperations. Let's not trash Lakeland because Todd and spouse, two very human beings, are having problems.
At August 28, 2008 5:34 PM ,
Jon Rising said...
Stephen,
I was alarmed at your upbeat report of the happenings at Lakeland in your May 22 posting on the Strang Report. You said:
"It's exciting to see what's happening in Lakeland. In my 32 years of covering the charismatic movement, I've never seen any 'revival meeting' get so much attention so fast. Everyone, it seems, is talking about it. A long line of respected leaders have attended the meetings to see it for themselves. Most have come away saying it's a genuine move of God."
I am very, very thankful that the vast MAJORITY of full gospel believers had serious reservations about what was happening in Lakeland and would NOT have considered traveling to Lakeland.
Glad to see that you have joined them.
At August 28, 2008 5:35 PM ,
Mark E. said...
I haven't read the other posts, so I'll probably be duplicating some thoughts already expressed.
"Why wasn't there discernment?" That is indeed the question that is being asked and which must be answered if the future is to be any more secure and lastingly fruitful than the recent past. Some began asking that question months ago. Those people were not received then and they're still not being received.
John Arnott posted a comment to the effect, 'If only we had known, perhaps we could have intervened before it got to a crisis stage.' Again, 'Where was discernment?'
I, too, read Dutch Sheets letter and I do appreciate his courage, initiative and forthrightness. He painted a clear and accurate picture of our current condition as American Christians. He and others have stated that they don't want or need to listen to the 'I told you so' crowd, that such comments are not helpful.
Well, the 'I told you so' crowd had more discernment than the people widely regarded as prophets. What does that tell you?
If God said to stone prophets for saying empty words, where is the discipline, from the Lord or from Christian leaders for contemporary 'prophets' who receive honor from men based on their percentage of prophetic accuracy being better than someone else's? When was the standard of 100% accuracy or death rescinded? It's probably an outgrowth of the disappearance of the fear of the Lord.
I read that 'mistakes were made.' It goes much deeper than mistakes. Our Biblically deficient Christian culture has been many years in the making. Now it has produced Lakeland and Todd Bentley with all the sadness and disillusionment. It has also produced an ingrown group of people who refer to themselves and each other as apostle and prophet.
Who will come into the spotlight next? The antichrist? Maybe. Will there be widespread discernment concerning the 'man of sin?' I'm beginning to doubt it. I fear many Christians will be deceived.
Many want to make 'adjustments'. Whatever has been built on a bad foundation cannot be adjusted. It must be torn down or abandoned. The true Cornerstone must be found and given the honor due Him. Paul was a wise masterbuilder because his eyes were fixed on Jesus.
Let's turn from men and titles and get back to the ONE Whose church we are.
Mark Elam
At August 28, 2008 5:37 PM ,
Jon Rising said...
Stephen,
I was alarmed at your upbeat report of the happenings at Lakeland in your May 22 posting on the Strang Report. You said:
"It's exciting to see what's happening in Lakeland. In my 32 years of covering the charismatic movement, I've never seen any 'revival meeting' get so much attention so fast. Everyone, it seems, is talking about it. A long line of respected leaders have attended the meetings to see it for themselves. Most have come away saying it's a genuine move of God."
I am very, very thankful that the vast MAJORITY of full gospel believers had serious reservations about what was happening in Lakeland and would NOT have considered traveling to Lakeland.
Glad to see that you have joined them.
At August 28, 2008 5:39 PM ,
Therese said...
Hello,
Thank you for your great insight on this situation. I wholeheartedly agree with your assessments and suggestions. The root of the matter, though, is PRIDE. Why did the emporer in the story cited buy into the scam? Because he could have something because he was so special; more special than anyone else.
Pride, pride, pride. Pull out the root of pride, cut it up, burn it and toss the ashes into the wind. Then watch and see true revival! Then only our Lord Jesus will get the glory, that he rightly deserves. (Jeremiah 9:24)
In Christ, Therese from Pennsylvania
At August 28, 2008 5:45 PM ,
Anonymous said...
If you believe that men like Wagner, Sheets, Bob Jones, and others who were a part of that debacle and on the stage at the commissioning were genuine "leaders", genuine apostles, and genuine prophets, then you are as deceived and deluded as they are. And this talk of "integrity"! I know atheists who have integrity. Gandhi had integrity. But integrity is not the test one uses to judge a message. One uses scripture to judge a message, as the Bereans did, to judge the message of a great man of integrity, i.e. the Apostle Paul, to see if what he preached was true with the scriptures. These men and women are false apostles and false prophets. They are wolves in sheep's clothing for the false message they preach irregardless of their "integrity". But now I see them backtrack and Wagner lie about the extent of his involvement with Bentley. Wagner now claims that he did not endorse Bentley and hardly knew him. Well take another look at the commissioning video. The man is lying. His true "integrity" is showing itself. He is no apostle and neither are you Mr. Strang. You're all frauds, i.e. self appointed self anointed "apostles" and "prophets". And you & company may claim leadership, but you and yours are no leader or leaders of mine and you and yours never will be. With Wagner's Dominionist Kingdom "theology" and Joel's Army "theology", I suspect he and his will help only to usher in the anti-Christ. The "Kingdom of God" that Wagner and the I.C.A, along with Bob Jones and others, is not the true Kindgom of God, but of men and the "god" of this world.
At August 28, 2008 5:56 PM ,
Joel and Kathy said...
Stephen,
Please contact those leaders regarding www.GodSaveMyMarriage.com
Helping severely wounded marriages find restoration; is what we do full time.
We have attempted to reach the Bentleys through various means without success.
Thank you,
Joel and Kathy Davisson
www.GodSaveMyMarriage.com
At August 28, 2008 6:00 PM ,
Anonymous said...
It saddens me that another leader has fallen into immorality. At the same time, it angers me that some are just now giving their discernment, Grady and Strang, about an overemphasis of angellic encounters, unusual manifestations, etc. It's interesting to hear the call for the need for discernment from men who publish books and articles on angelic encounters, ghosts inhabiting houses, generational curses, and other unbiblical issues. Perhaps, Charisma and its publishing arm need to follow their own advice and re-examine their own theology.
At August 28, 2008 6:09 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Mr. Strang;
I will say what some others are saying and that is why arent the ICA Apostles accountable for their false prophecies over Todd?
You seem to speak the truth about Todd and such but why are you afraid to speak the truth about Peter Wagner and his friends? Do you honestly think that Wagner is an apostle and is only accountable to God and no one else? Are you really afraid of Peter Wagner?
Until you can speak the truth about Wagner and his bodies you are no better than the rest of the crowd who is cheering about the fake clothes.
At August 28, 2008 6:27 PM ,
Darren Tyler said...
Out of curiosity, and nothing more than that... is there some sort of verification of the healings and the people being raised from the dead? I'm not talking about one of the dubious shorter leg than the other being healed or the guy getting up from a wheel chair but still limping around, but actual verifiable evidence of a real live healing happening at this "revival"?
At August 28, 2008 7:18 PM ,
Dale said...
This is why so many moves of God die out... we are all too willing to say "see, it couldn't have been God... look at what happpened!" Jesus said you will know a genuine work of God by its fruit. Rather than focusing on tattoos, piercings and Todd Bentley's marital problems to define whether or not the Lakeland outpouring was really of God, we should be examining the fruit that has come from it. A bad tree will not yield good fruit, and vice versa. Let's face it, God has chosen to work through humans, and humans are going to fail. The question is, when failures happen and shortcomings are revealed, do we pray, forgive and restore, or do we judge, condemn, and throw stones??
At August 28, 2008 7:32 PM ,
Onesimus said...
Mr Strang said: “Meanwhile, many people are talking about the situation and wondering why there wasn't more discernment.”
I think there was PLENTY of discernment shown regarding this situation – but it was shown by many who were ridiculed and abused because they dared to speak out against the “revival”. It was shown by many who don’t have prominent and dominant positions of authority. It was shown by many who don’t have a celebrity platform to maintain, who don’t have financial interests to put at risk.
Forget the tattoos and piercings – those objections are mere distractions in comparison to the blatant false doctrine and false prophetic that drove these meetings.
Unfortunately, this “revival” won’t be the last of its type. The boundaries have been pushed and those who blindly rushed to this will blindly rush to the next (and more extreme [Beware of the “New Mystics”!]) Charismatic circus. And once again the celebrity “apostles” and “prophets” will try to jump on the bandwagon.
Why is it that so many celebrity preachers could only see the problems with Bentley’s ministry AFTER his sin was exposed [please note it is SIN and not “mistakes” as so many are saying]? Why weren’t the problems of his doctrine and practices seen and questioned by these celebrities? Could it be that these men and women are too ignorant of the scriptures and only judge things by popularity or by the spectacle on offer?
Some of those now speaking out (Mr Grady and Mr Strang included) are calling for people to get back to the scriptures. How beneficial would it have been if the scriptures had been adhered to in the first place!
Wake up church – we are living in those days prophesied in scripture, where people would no longer tolerate sound doctrine. Ask yourselves – who are the false prophets false teachers and false christs (false anointed ones) that Jesus warned us about? Many of those associated with Lakeland and in particular its “Alignment and Commissioning” ceremony fit every description. Just check out the “prophecies” that were spoken about Bentley and compare their “success” rate with the required success rate recorded in scripture.
Mr Strang said: “Meanwhile ministry to Bentley continues. I'm thankful that the Christian leaders who were set over him in the June 23 “alignment and commissioning” ceremony at the Lakeland Outpouring are ministering to him behind the scenes.”
Please see my previous paragraph. These leaders are a major part of the problem. They prophesy falsely. They teach falsely and their authority is self-appointed. If they are truly anointed and prophetic men of God – why didn’t they see and address the problems with Bentley’s doctrine and practices PRIOR to the public exposure of Bentley’s sin? Did they not recognize the error? Or were they more concerned with protecting their own interests and those of their friends instead of protecting vulnerable and immature saints from the error being spread around?
All of the public announcements being made by these men and women are merely attempts to cover their own tracks and distance themselves form the fall out. Todd Bentley would do well to turn away from these wolves and find some REAL men and women of God to lead him to the truth. Real men and women of God who live in quiet and obedient humility and not in the spotlight of celebrity.
At August 28, 2008 7:41 PM ,
Larry said...
As a youngster to the Pentecostal movement in th mid fifties, I was told that where there is fire there will also be wildfire. This age and time frame convince me more than ever that there is much truth in this pronouncement. God and the living body of Christ, His Church, have to be appalled and disgusted by recent events. I did not attend the Lakeland meetings, but prayed daily for an outpouring of the Holy Spirit and praise God for those genuinely touched. Can we quickly get past this debacle? Probably not! I want so much to move beyond this through prayer and fasting as the enemy is having a field day with all our conjectures, prophetic abuses, and finger pointing. I cry deeply for repentance, forgiveness, healing and restoration.
Larry
Tarpon Springs, FL
At August 28, 2008 7:45 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Steve,
It is all so deeply troubling...
I am really glad that you are not allowing this situation to be "swept under the rug" because the issues of possible heresies, little discernment, and rare warnings by National-level shepherds are so much larger and go beyond Lakeland. It's really scary that only a few could see plainly and sound a truly clear alarm like Robert Ricciardelli. Please don't misunderstand me. I'm grateful that some were questioning, but we really needed a sound of sure clarity. Robert was almost a lone voice who had moved BEYOND questioning and spoke with utter clarity. His words were truer than any prophet who was part of the Lakeland Commissioning. Honest Questions are great, but there comes a point where leaders should have moved beyond questioning into clarity. To just stay in a state of questioning results can lead to inaction and confusion. I'm not exalting Robert; he readily admits that he hasn't always been right. But isn't it deeply troubling that Robert was a voice of "rare air", while a few were guardedly questioning, and most said either nothing or appeared to endorse the event? Something is really wrong, don't you think?
Thanks for highlighting the plea for repentance that was issued by Dutch Sheets. I am very concerned that this will be glossed over. It would be so beautiful if these men would truly humble themselves publicly and unconditionally repent for violating 1 Timothy 5:22 I'm not really sure that we will be able to heal properly without this essential step. If leaders can't be humble and readily admit mistakes publicly, then everything else that they do has a hollow ring to it. It's been a week since Dutch issued this challenge for public repentance. I'm still hoping and praying that they and others will publicly apologiize. Let the healing begin.
Dan-o
At August 28, 2008 8:06 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Where is love and compassion? Many people were healed and many trained to go out and win souls? Can't any of you give credit where credit is due?
It is very easy to kick a guy when he is down. The Bible says restore some one lest you fall.
It sounds like some of you have a touch of pride yourselves.
At August 28, 2008 8:10 PM ,
Believer said...
I think you guys should have read the Charisma comments for the past three months that are now deleted under General Discussion Forum, because the lay people knew more than the ICA ministers did, and told you. We are not dumb. And I have been posting warnings about Patricia King and her bizarre "mortuary ministry" and more bizarre manifestations and teachings, yet many churches now are embracing her, especially in Phoenix, as if all her "odd" is "God." It's a sad, sad, state of the church! People wake up and do your online research, and compare their teachings to the Bible.Don't rely on experiences or emotionalism!
At August 28, 2008 8:14 PM ,
gracecoveredsinner said...
The Lord alone knows each heart which one of us claims this ability now? I can cast no stone to anyone lest alone Todd Bentley. However I can pray for him and in this do what Jesus showed each one to follow Him in doing. Jesus came first to bring healing and restoration of the souls of men to the Father (God's gift of grace through Jesus sacrifice) the next time He will come in judgment so until then I will rest in the grace He alone freely gives to all who call out to Him and open their hearts and hands to receive it of which I am just one sinner who chooses grace for all. Yes and in reverent fear of the judgment that will come those not found in His grace alone they alone will experience judgment as they so judged now.
At August 28, 2008 8:16 PM ,
Anonymous said...
The Tatoos and the piercings were a DEAD-GIVE-AWAY. While ignorant Christians try to dismiss these clear markings of rebellion and the influence of the world, and slander such people as "religious" etc, sadly, we get to say SEE, WE TOLD YOU SO! Appearance DOES matter. Everything we do or don't do DOES matter. Todd Bentley is a WORLDLY individual, corrupted by Rock Music, like millions of others, and the degenerate sub-culture that comes with that music--tattoos and piercings, sloppy dress, etc. A steady diet of Hell-o-vision has carnalized most Christians in America as well, and it was clear Todd was on a steady diet of that medium as well, especially Professional Wrestling. which is VERY CORRUPT and Christian has any business watching.
At August 28, 2008 8:21 PM ,
Anonymous said...
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At August 28, 2008 8:26 PM ,
Anonymous said...
While I appreciate Mr. Strang's comments now, and in all due respect, I am troubled that the same person that is sounding the alarm is often the same person glorifying the fallen leaders before they fall.
Mr. Strang, how many times has your magazine featured fallen evangelists and church leaders on the cover prior to their fall? You even appear on their shows and networks--the very shows and networks where they are doing some of the very "if it's odd, it must be God" things after you walk off the stage. You are even aware of some of the problems beforehand and feature them anyway.
I don't see how you can be the leader of change if you glorify people one day because they're the current "it" person and then lead crusades against them the next day, once they've fallen and can't help your magazine or other publications anymore.
Before you lead change, you have to change how you're operating your own publishing empire.
At August 28, 2008 8:36 PM ,
Jon Rising said...
anonymous (from 8:26 p.m.),
Stephen Strang owes you and all of his subscribers an answer; not necessarily in this forum, but an answer is owed.
Failing that, it seems likely that eventually there will be magazine arise that will take Charisma's place, just as it took the Logos Journal's place.
At August 28, 2008 8:58 PM ,
Anonymous said...
I dont know anything about Mr. Bentley or the Lakeland Revival, but lets stop laying blame. He needs help and it is not coming from the media or everyones opinion in the polls. I just finished reading a book for school that is talking about how we defame each other but does not lift a finger to help. It is not about the tatoos or the miracles or anything that may have happened in that revival. It is about God and what He is able to do. He will use anybody to get what He wants done. Lets pray that His will is done in our lives as well as the Bentleys and the nation.
At August 28, 2008 9:00 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Thank you Mr. Strang and J. Lee Grady. I read the expose in Charisma, but I say,"too little, too late."
I moved from Tampa to TN in 7/06 because of family situations here.
My husband and I went to many revivals down there and we saw many physical healings.
Our former Pastor Billy Burke has been anointed by God for a healing and deliverance ministry. He never did any of the outrageous things in his crusades and services that Todd Bentley did. Pastor Billy has documented proof from a lot of people who were healed in those services.
When we watched Todd B. on the internet, we were absolutely horrified to see and hear the things that Todd was saying and doing. In one service, he was calling out for God to send down the angels and he did this repeatedly. Why? The Bible warns us that we are not to worship the angels. His angel, "Emma" is a demonic angel.
What we saw and heard let us know right away that this was demonic.
However, there were many innocent and hungry people wanting God to heal and to save them. I believe that God did just that, in His mercy, grace, and compassion.
There is another side to what happened in Lakeland.
I learned years ago about witches covens being located in and around Lakeland, Winter Haven, and up through to the Orlando area.
Many of them have infiltrated the churches, the hospitals, different businesses, etc.
Not many people are willing to talk about this issue because they are afraid they will be chastised and ridiculed. I have personal knowledge of two women who have been in the covens for many years and they have told me of some of the activities they get involved in. Is wicca a religion? NO!
It is a cult and as such they have their own gods.
My point in revealing this is to let people know that there are things going on that seem, on the surface to be okay, but when you test the spirits and study the scriptures to see if things line up with God's Word, and they don't, then, as Christians, we have a duty to stand up and use the discernment that we should have. We need to be bold like Paul was bold.
In other words, why can't we just take a stand and very loudly challenge what is being said and done?
At August 28, 2008 9:09 PM ,
Joseph said...
I am not trying to defend Todd Bentley and I am also not condemning him. I believe that he is a man of God and has been used in mighty ways for the Kingdom. I feel that he lacked wisdom in spending too much time in ministry and not with his family. He certainly messed up when he developed an "emotional relationship" with a woman other than his wife and with the drinking. He should have taken steps to deal with all of these issues much earlier.
I pray for Todd and his family and ministry to be restored to even greater than it was before.
As to those who became Todd's covering... It is easy to say that they should have had discernment or a word of knowledge before commissioning him but what about all of the church "leaders" who expressed discomfort or disagreement with Todd and the Lakeland Outpouring while it was going strong? Why didn't they receive a word of knowledge about his marriage or the drinking? I only heard them expressing discomfort with his style, appearance or doctrine. Apparently they all had great discomfort but no real discernment or else they would have heard from the Lord and gone either to Todd or the body of Christ with their word of knowledge concerning these now uncovered issues.
And just maybe it was the right thing to do - commissioning Todd - thereby bringing him into alignment and making it easier for these men to correct, disciple and restore him because he placed himself under them just in time - for such a time as this.
Again, I am not totally defending Todd and what he has done but many seem to be missing the real point here.
It's not about a ministry or a church or a movement or an outpouring. We are dealing with people - Todd and Shonnah Bentley and their children. It's a marriage, a family. I keep hearing about how this brings such reproach to the body of Christ and how much damage this could do to the church. Don't think that one man's failures are going to bring the church down. It will take more than this to bring reproach to the Name of Christ. He will defend and vindicate His Name. I am not saying that we should do nothing or just not worry about it or that we should not hold ourselves to high standards. I do believe that many are not really as worried about reproach to the Name of Christ or the church as they are reproach or disdain for their own ministries. ("What will people say about us?") God is not as concerned with reproach to the church or His Name as He is with the lives and hearts of the Bentley family. Again, He will defend both His church and His Name and both will continue to stand strong. We need to stop worrying so much about the "church" and do what Jesus said: leave the 99 and go after the 1.
Lastly, whats the big deal about angels and tattoos??????
We tell our churches all the time that they better get ready for God to bring in the folks that don't look like us. We talk about the goths and punks and people covered with tattoo's coming flocking into the church during revival but we flip out when a preacher looks like that. I could see if he were preaching naked but come on... are we so stuck up and stuck in our ways that we can't get past something as small as tattoo's?
And the angels... It's ok for Smith Wigglesworth to see the devil standing at the foot of his bed but not for someone to see and speak with an angel??? Oh, I forgot, that stuff is only in the BIBLE! Daniel held conversations with angels. So did many other prophets. I have heard people say that 1) Angels do not identify themselves by name (According to the NT) and 2) Angels don't bring revelation.
Yet an angel identified himself by name to both Mary and Zacharias (NT) and gave them both revelation: both would have sons - one would be a prophet and forerunner of the Messiah the other would be the Messiah and be conceived supernaturally by the Holy Spirit! The NT tells us that Michael the archangel contended with Satan over the body of Moses... apparently God was not too concerned with us knowing the name of the angel.
Why can't we believe that an angel could appear to someone in their hotel room and speak to them? Is it because the experience is outside of our norm? Is it because we are jealous that we have never had the experience? Is it because we think that if something is not explicitly spelled out in the Bible it cannot be true? Or are we just ignorant of what the Bible really says? The Bible is full of angelic visitation to man. (And no, I do not accept every story of angelic visitation from every person who claims one - however I do not understand the uproar over angels in hotel rooms or angels that bring healing or prosperity, etc.)
Lastly - to say that angels do not identify themselves or bring revelation is to discount the prophets and the Old Testament yet the same people who do this so strongly want to fall back on an Old Testament passage about tattoo's. Don't pick and choose. If you can't accept the angels of the Old Testament don't use the Old Testament to judge someone on "marking their body." (And by the way - I don't really care for tattoos myself.) We can neither throw out the OT nor live by the letter of the law. Can we do ourselves a favor and stop making ourselves look stupid by throwing such a tizzy over tats and accept that we can believe in angels and interact with them without being "angel worshipers"?
Let's deal with REAL doctrinal issues, (of which I do admit Todd Bentley has some). Lets get over fear of reproach to the body and take pity on human lives, (of which the body is made up). Let us accept what both the Old and New Testament supports about supernatural encounters - that the only angelic encounter that is not to be accepted is when the angel preaches another gospel - not says something we are uncomfortable with or not expecting to hear. Perhaps if we dealt with more angels we would not have to deal with so many demons!
P.S. It is sadly true that many Pentecostal think that if it's "not odd, it's not of God." Lets just not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
At August 28, 2008 9:36 PM ,
Anonymous said...
I too went to the Lakeland Revival to see what it was all about. I too felt like something was not right but could not put my finger on what it was. Just an uneasiness. I did enjoy the worship, it was wonderfull the nights I was there. But that is about all that was wonderful. I must admit I was disapointed, everyone around me seemed to be getting in on something that I just could not get in on. Everyone seemed to be feeling the Holy Spirit, but I was not. I went up for prayer, and came back to my seat with nothing. I thought it was just me. I thought there was something wrong with me. Surely it couldn't have been everyone else. I mean the whole place seemed to be full of people who were getting touched by the Lord. I too will learn to listen to that still small voice inside of me.
When I heard about angels visiting him on a regular basis, that is when I started to figure out things were very wrong, and that is when I started to pray for the people, and for Mr. Bently. I am sorry to hear about his family situation. I pray for him also, and for all the people who were following the happenings in Florida.
At August 28, 2008 9:54 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Yes, i do think you can connect the tattoos and piercings with signs of deception as if you look at earlier video from just 18 months ago he didn't seem to have any. It's one thing to gt them before reaching maturity as a christian, or for street ministry you mgiht get some but to go as far as he did when having been a christian for so long is very concerning. He even had a picture of a dark angel--an angel dressed all in black overlooking Lakeland on his home page!! come on now--is that lack of discernment or what?!!
At August 28, 2008 10:06 PM ,
carowis said...
It is interesting to me that very few people questioned that the Holy Spirit ALWAYS does things decently and in order. I watched the revival for several nights. Many asked if I would attend. My spirit just never gave me a feeling that what was going on was of the Holy Spirit.
Having said that, I realize that there were a lot of hungry and perhaps even desperate people who attended and even came a long way for healing or other needs. Let me say that when people get hungry for something from God, they can be in a corn field, or anywhere else and God is going to answer. I beleive that the outpourings were due to the faith of the people and their earnest cries to God.
On another note, I believe it is time for the body of Christ to STOP talking about Todd's problems openly and begin to lift him up to the throne for complete healing, which includes his marriage. Do we NOT believe that God is in the healing business? This issue needs to stop being headlines in the news and begin to be a prayer vigil for a hurting part of the body of Christ. I am wounded along with Todd and his family. I grieve for them, just like one part of my physical body hurts when another part is sick. As a Mother in the body and a member of the body, God has called me to be a Mother who undergirds this situation with Prayer and Not gossip. I call on the body of Christ to put this issue to rest except in out headline petitions to God.
At August 28, 2008 10:30 PM ,
Lorna said...
One of the blessings out of this is that we have learnt once again that God will not tolerate us having idols.
And I believe the spirit of discernment will continue to rise up - along with the courage to use it (I think the latter has been missing to be honest. I do not believe that there were no words of knowledge about this - I think there was a lack of wisdom about how to voice it - I believe platform leaders were aware of the danger Todd himself was in (let alone the difficulties he was leading many of of the body of Christ in) but that big leaders lack wisdom of how to handle it.
.. hence the crowning ceremony :(
Why?
Why did they lack the wisdom/courage of how to move on
I think it's great that they are continuing to walk with Todd. They are men (and women) of integrity and I am convinced they will have repented privately for their mistakes in this.
On a personal level I almost lost my best friends because I was unwilling to embrace this outpouring. And to be honest at times I wondered why it was so difficult for me. I mean was I being put off by tattoos? I avoided most of the hype and the critisim and sought God. And still I remained unwilling to embrace it - so I put the whole thing on hold. And I was right to do so. When asked personally I gave my reservations - but encouraged people to seek Jesus for themselves. That's always the better -no best -way.
I am reminded time and time again of 1 Cor 12 - when part of the body suffers, we all suffer ... yet Paul follows this with teaching about love.
We love Todd back into the kingdom. WE love those who were deceived back into the Kingdom. We love ...
(and yes part of that love is calling sin sin and repenting for OUR part. I didn't speak up strongly. Was I called to? Where I did voice my concerns - did I give the truth in love or was my motive to pull down and destroy a person and a movement rather that the demonic forces at work? Have I done anything to alleviate the pain that many have felt after Todd's crash from the limelight, or have I merely pointed the finger and said "X was at fault" ... or "someone else should do Y,Z"
when one part suffers we all suffer but when part is honoured it's a joy for us all
the church will survive this - and it will be glorious - but that's when we start to BE the church (instead of it being merely somewhere to go to)
I confess I have made grevious mistakes in the way I have handled my reservations, I confess I have sinned against God in my attitudes to Todd, his team, and yes even the people who were duped into thinking this was a move of God - and I ask forgiveness from the body of Christ as well as from my Heavenly Father.
When part suffers we all suffer - and He is the way to reconcilliation and the re-building of the church
At August 28, 2008 10:39 PM ,
Anonymous said...
From what I can tell, the proper steps are being taken to deal with all of the concerns raised; but it will take some time to sort it all out. I hear so much fear in all of these posts.
Those who say that "all along" they had concerns are afraid that their concerns will not be addressed. And those who were excited that there was a new, fresh healing move taking place are afraid that it is over.
It is way too early to be drawing all of these conclusions. We must be patient and allow God to work.
May I humbly suggest that we begin to blog heartfelt prayers concerning Lakeland rather than our opinions? I'll go first!
Father, I pray for Todd and Shonnah Bentley and their three children. Lord, I pray that you will bring the grace of restoration to each of their lives.
I pray that you will give Todd & Shonnah a fresh willingness to work on restoring their marriage. Protect the children's minds and emotions.
Give much wisdom to John Arnott, Bill Johnson, Che Ahn and any other leaders who will be working with them for restoration.
I pray too that you will protect and mature the fruit that has been produced from Lakeland and many other places around the world where healings, salvations and miracles occurred.
Father I pray that you will comfort your church, the bride of Christ as she deals with the confusion, disappointment, discouragement and pain from this situation.
And Lord I pray that you would cause your people all over the world to pray for mercy for the church. May we humble ourselves; examine our own lives and repent for our own personal sin.
Finally, I ask Father that you would release a great cry for mercy for the United States and the upcoming election. In Jesus mighty Name. Amen.
At August 28, 2008 11:21 PM ,
Grant said...
Some of us on this side of the Atlantic (Africa) have watched with concern as yet another American showman and his followers have claimed to be on the cutting edge of God's activity in the world. Overblown statements about world revival, weird doctrines and activities, suspension of all credible belief; don't ask questions, it offends God! When will the American church learn that what happens in these cases affects us all, we all pay the price?
At August 28, 2008 11:24 PM ,
Rev. Paul said...
I have only One Word for the entire scenario of Lakeland and of the Charismatic Leadership's failure to "SEE" what was really going on and say if it's of God or Not [Not after the 'bubble bust'] - the word is DECEPTION! The devil is a Master in this Game! And unfortunately, many many Christians, Charismatics, Leaders & the Christian media, [including GOD TV, Charisma, CBN 700 Club, Sid Roth's It's Supernatural, etc, etc] All fell into that Trap of DECEPTION - starting from Tod himself! I believe, Tod Bentley, fell into DEMONIC DECEPTION [without knowing it] then as his 'Ministry' came to Lakeland, that DECEPTION swept off 'Everyone' without their knowing it!
Without claiming to be perfect or to know it all; Some of us 'SAW' and Knew that this was DECEPTION - But unless you have a 'VOICE' what you say might never be heard or believed; Yet those who heard a VOICE, refused to Speak or they were already Deceived or didn't want to grieve the 'Spirit'. Anyway, I hope and Pray that we'll be more Discerning when next a 'heavily pierced & tattooed' [with all kinds of Hindu, Buddah, Ancient, Cult & gang styled tattoo images, -done after a so called 'angelic visitation]; wearing a T-Shirt of 'skulls/ skeletons' to 'minister' on the platform; Having 'female' angelic {Emma?}& dead prophet's visitations; 'bamming' people all over the place & with many scriptural inconsistencies in his ministry/ message, etc,etc,etc; I hope we look closer & Discern more - without being carried away with whatever showmanship & or miracles...
At August 29, 2008 12:48 AM ,
Anonymous said...
Those who claim to be leaders in the Body must understand you don't wait until you have nothing to lose and everyone agrees with you to stand up for Truth. Todd's issues run deeper than a simple marriage problem and were obvious before any moral failures became public. This young man was full of ambition and foolishness and was allowed by those who had previous respect from many to carry thousands on his ridiculous bandwagon. His theology is ludicrous and his anointing highly questionable. I am so very grateful to Lee Grady for shouting out that he needed clothes long before the fearful would say what they saw. This very type of thing makes our dear Charismatic movement deserve the criticism we get and makes it hard for the World to take the Gospel seriously.
At August 29, 2008 1:49 AM ,
Anonymous said...
Mr Strang,
Warning flags about Lakeland and Todd Bentley were raised by bloggers and on forums as early as April 24.
These people were dismissed as heresy hunters, spirit quenchers, and revival police.
Virtually no church leaders publicly questioned what was going on - most rushed to endorse it (including yourself and Lee Grady).
The self-appointed apostles and prophets who commissioned Todd on June 23 also showed themselves to have no discernment. They are major-league heretics just like Todd.
Yet now, the bloggers etc have been proved right and all those who jumped on the bandwagon are now jumping off. And it's not just Todd's marital infidelity that people are questioning - their eyes are being opened to his false doctrine, lies, fake healing, emotional manipulation, self-glorification, etc.
I'm sorry to say this, but in the end, the bloggers and everyday folks were right and the leaders were wrong.
Videos of Todd from a few years ago show he was preaching the same angelic rubbish. I find it hard to believe that anyone would say anything positive about him or invite him to preach at their church. The man is a heretic, period.
Having just watched some videos of Lakeland again, I again immediately realised that Todd is to be avoided. Anyone who says "bam" whilst praying for people and repeatedly screams "angels" whilst the congregation is in music-induced hysterics is not fit for any sort of ministry in the church, let alone to lead an international "revival". How anyone can endorse him is completely beyond me.
At August 29, 2008 3:58 AM ,
carowis said...
Grant, Your point is succinct and is taken as such. That was what I was trying to say. We cannot have these injuries without all parts of the body hurting. When we break a leg are we talking about how bad the leg is? Or are we trying to comfort and fix the leg. We MUST begin to think of ourselves as a true body and protect and minister to all aspects, including the fall out of such an event to ALL the body. My prayers are with you there, that this blight with not hinder any work you are doing or that God is doing.
At August 29, 2008 3:59 AM ,
James said...
A healthy discussion on any matter pertaining to the the kingdom of God is going to benefit the body of Christ. Without prejudice any of the writers, I would like say that freedom to express is often mistaken as freedom to "expose." We may not agree on evrything, can't we disagree without being disagreeable.
At August 29, 2008 4:21 AM ,
Anonymous said...
I believe if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is a duck. The reason some watched and at first had a pull in their spirit and kept watching later not been discernful because that spirit of deceit was coming on them. I didn't like it from the beginning, and see now that my judgment has been justified. The thing is we are to go to God and ask and do what he says, to test the spirits. Duh
At August 29, 2008 5:37 AM ,
William Southward said...
? said:
Mr. Strang;
I will say what some others are saying and that is why arent the ICA Apostles accountable for their false prophecies over Todd?
You seem to speak the truth about Todd and such but why are you afraid to speak the truth about Peter Wagner and his friends? Do you honestly think that Wagner is an apostle and is only accountable to God and no one else? Are you really afraid of Peter Wagner?
Until you can speak the truth about Wagner and his bodies you are no better than the rest of the crowd who is cheering about the fake clothes.
I agree And would like to add patricia King, Wendy of God TV plus Rory, all Gansters.
Why Mr Strang, are you afraid? you like me, know well what is going on, how the truth is not coming out, and I believe that Todd is Gay others like Bob Jones, P King etc know about this. Todd is a ganster a low life and was out to conn the people and make a name for himself as was P Wagner etc.
At August 29, 2008 6:05 AM ,
Chris Anderson said...
It should be clear that unless a spiritual presence and power of some kind had arrived at Lakeland, we would not be having this discussion today. The first question then is to determine what power and presence came to Lakeland?
If anyone determines it was of the devil, then they need to have the guts to say that all the people that were healed were healed by the power of Beelzebub--knowing full well the consequences of such a statement if they are wrong. (Anyone care to make that statement?)
But if we determine the power and presence was of the Lord, then the next question is, since the Lord knew all about Todd Bentley before He fell on him and the Lakeland meetings, what was HIS intent by doing so? Did He intend to be upstaged by everyone's attention on a man? (Unlikely.)Did HE intend to give His glory over to the Eneny by default of our genuine discernment regarding real evils that were dogging HIS power? (Unlikely.) Was it to just "bless some hungry seekers"? (If so, why Lakeland under Todd, since there are hungry seekers everywhere?) If none of the above, then did HE have a larger point to prove, perhaps a greater test to make of us all, maybe something deeper HE is looking for to bring forth a people that can prove themselves able and worthy to steward the glory of HIS Kingdom Come as we all pray for?
Bottom line for all who do believe the Lord indeed came to Lakeland (myself included)is: What was and is HIS heart, mind and purpose by coming the way HE did with full knowledge of the dubious conditions into which HE was injecting HIMSELF and the chaotic results HE knew it would produce? If we care about HIS glory, this is really the question we should step back to seek HIS face and revelation concerning. All we have otherwise is noise.
A final thought: Be careful what and how you say what you say on this board or any board. For "of every idle word shall men give account." The Lord is watching this board.
At August 29, 2008 6:09 AM ,
Darren Tyler said...
I know i asked this before but maybe I didn't ask it in the right way. It seems that the only "defense" was that signs and wonders were happening. So my question is does anyone know of any actual documented evidence of the claims of the dead being raised or terminal illnesses being cured?
Growing up Charistmatic one of the things I struggle with is that I've never actually seen something like that happen even though I've heard reports of it.
I would always see the leg being "grown out" or someone having back pain that doesn't have it anymore. The wheel chair folks that I've seen get up and walk were actually limping still which leads me to believe they were like my mom who could walk but experienced pain so she was in a wheel chair.
I'm honestly not asking this from a position of "gotcha" but rather from a real live curiosity.
Were any of these signs that are being used to justify this movement even real to begin with?
At August 29, 2008 6:10 AM ,
Robby Myrick said...
Mr. Strang:
I echo the many here who say, "Thanks", for this very clear and heartfelt summation on the Lakeland situation. Your passion for revival and spiritual awakening in America, and around the world, is obvious. Your concern for the Bentleys and the Lakeland team is sincere, I believe. And, your greater concern for the body of Christ and our leadership worldwide is well placed.
Having personally served in ministry for more than 30 years with a variety of ministries, of many shapes, denominational brands, and styles, and where high profile leaders have fallen, I can honestly say with Dutch Sheets ... shame on us -- the Church.
We know better. And, we need repentance. We have lowered our guard in the names of "extended grace", "seeker friendliness", "compassion for the unchurched", and every other 21st-century mantra ... simply to win a crowd. And, it must grieve the heart of the Father.
I fight my own personal battles with legalism, having grown up in the Bible-belt culture of "our four and no more", which also must grieve our Father because of the exlusivity of such behavior and sub-culture religious mentality.
Bottom line: wake up Church of America!
Play time is over. No longer will childish, irresponsible, and "look-the-other-way" leadership be acceptable in this culture.
The children of this age (20-somethings), as pointed out in your article Mr. Strang, are fully aware of the facade, just at the children in the Emporer fable. I know ... I hear their voices every day as my own children and their networks of friends and buddies literally belly-laugh at the absolute comedy routines that we have come to call "revival".
We in the charismatic church realm are without excuse anymore. We have been tagged by this generation for our "Saturday Night Live parody" style game that we are calling revival. It is not revival. It is man-exalting pablem. And, I believe God has lifted His favor from such exploits.
Does God use such men as Todd Bentley, and others who seem "odd"? Of course He does!
My brother, who guffaws at most in the charismatic camp, has a pretty accurate little quip, and I agree:
" ... if God would use Balaam's ass, he can sure use mine ..."
Ha! A bit of off-color Southern humor, if you will; but, nonetheless, true.
If God would choose to use Todd Bentley, with all his "odd" behaviors and techniques of ministry style, he can surely use my odd-ness to get His work accomplished.
We, humans, are fallen. And, that's just who we are. Thank God that He chooses to us any of us. But, then, that's His Plan A for the redemption of mankind. He commissioned His Church ... filled with fallen humans ... to WIN this world to Himself.
Jesus has redeemed ALL flesh. I'm glad. That gives folks like me a shot at Heaven, not hell. And, a glimmer of hope for a life filled with the joy of serving Christ here until he returns.
Still, in the American version of Jesus' church, there is a huge void of leadership qualification, standard of behavior, and simple integrity.
The kings of our day have been tagged ... and, we are found wanting and of little credibility and influence.
My God, just look at the current presidential campaign in America! I've never seen, in my short lifetime, such embarrassing and empty leadership as we are representing to this world at this time.
I echo my brother, Dutch Sheets' heartcry ... forgive us O God ... and, forgive us America and the world ... for such pitiful standards of leadership and example of what godly leadership should look like ... especially from those of us who say that we "walk in the Spirit of the Almighty".
God help us, I pray.
At August 29, 2008 6:12 AM ,
Anonymous said...
Thank you for your post, Mr.Strang. We are praying for Todd and Shonnah; we love them both. I believe in the integrity of the Christian leaders you speak of. Lack of integrity is not the main problem right now- lack of truth is.
We have a God-given opportunity at this time, to weed out error in the Charismatic movement. We have a mandate to speak the truth in love, even when it hurts. No one should be immune from examining themselves, and then examining the fruit of others ministries. We need to do this- honestly, openly, and in child-like humility and faith.
We must refrain from disrespectful and contentious actions and speak gently and considerately, because all of us have strayed from the truth.
The truth is so simple that even a child can see it.
When someone prophesies and their prophecy doesn't come to pass, it wasn't a prophecy from God. When someone makes an apostolic decree and the opposite happens, that wasn't a decree from God. Wild behavior doesn't make you more spiritual.
Odd is not God! Exactly!
Seeing angels doesn't make you more spiritual. And by the way, seeing an angel means seeing with your own natural eyes, not just imagining you see one. Visions are just that, you see with your eyes, not eyes of faith. Not all dreams are from God, some resulted from the movie you saw last night, and the pepperoni on your pizza. Now is the time to wake up and turn from this nonsense. Now is the time to experience true prophetic words. I am just trying to read the Bible, and do what it says!
Leadership does need to take this seriously. Because we do believe in their integrity, and honor their position, we appeal to those in authority to act at this time. We need an apostolic council of elders to set a standard for doctrine, accountability and protocol for ministry in our movement. The need is urgent!!!
This is a time for REPENTANCE!!!
There has to be an exposure of the false doctrines of the Latter Rain heresy that have taken root in our movement. Extreme prophetic and its influence needs to be rooted out, along with its New Age and occult elements. There is only one Gospel of the Kingdom, and the Kingdom of God will never come in fullness until the King returns. The return of Jesus is a literal, observable event.
Gnosticism, in the form of having special insights, or secret truths, abounds in the church. Even if Christians do not openly admit to holding the doctrines of the Nicolaitans, they do the deeds of the Nicolaitans, committing sexual sin and doing what they want with their bodies, while at the same time pretending to worship God with their spirits and in truth. So many are actually ministering to others while indulging in the sins of the flesh. This should not be so. Someone knows. Someone is close to the situation and knows, but sins are covered, under the scriptural admonition saying that "love covers a multitude of sins."
We all have blind spots, but we can't let the blind lead the blind. The leadership has to act quickly and decisively. It's not about Todd Bentley, God used Todd mightily, the fruits of his ministry, lead us to the roots of the deceptions that influenced him. Let's start with the prophecies of Bob Jones, and others in the movement. How about the influence of the Elijah List?
I write these things with great sorrow, because until recently, I was a devout follower of these people and this movement.
Truly, "Awakening" has come to me. Praise God!
At August 29, 2008 6:43 AM ,
Anonymous said...
Just because there were people who actually healed, it doesn't mean they were of God.
Don't we need to examine under what kind of "spirit" TB was operating?
I don't think this was merely his character issue.
Isn't TB's saying that God told him to "kick this older woman in her face with your biker boots" blaspheme against God?
At August 29, 2008 6:46 AM ,
Rick Zeller said...
Dear Mr. Strang,
I am truly thankful for the way you and Lee Grady have handled the situation in Lakeland. I am aware that many look at what you are saying as Monday morning quarterbacking, but, I believe we need to temper judgement with mercy. After all, that is what Jesus did with all of us.
I serve as the pastor of a small pentecostal church in Georgia, and as were most pastors, interested and concerned about what was happening in Lakeland. I have some very good friends that are ICA Apostles, and value their judgement. Robert Ricciardelli said that he believed the revival was false. Some others did also, and some either jumped on the band wagon, or just watched and wondered.
We can condemn the ICA Apostles, as some have done, or we can pray for them. In Acts 16, we see Paul and his companions preaching in Philippi. A girl followed them proclaiming "These men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way of salvation." Now, we understand that she was demon possessed, and needed deliverance, but the part of this scripture that jumps out at me are the words following these: "AND THIS DID SHE MANY DAYS." It would seem that even the Apostle Paul was subject to "lapses" of discernment.
We need to take to heart what the Spirit spoke to the church at Ephesus, in Revelation 2. God told them the good things they did, good works, labor, hating evil, trying those that say they were apostles, and were not, and showing them for the liars they were; but, He also told them He had "somewhat against them", because they had left their first love. That is, they had forgotten about Jesus. Unfortunately, much of the church is in that condition right now.
Let us return to prayer. Let us return to really studying the Bible. Let us return to true Biblical worship. But, let us return to our first love, and let us love Jesus Christ in everything we do. If we will do that, God will be pleased, and problems like Lakeland may show up less.
In the Master's Service,
Dr. Richard W. Zeller, Pastor
Eatonton Pentecostal Holiness Church
At August 29, 2008 7:07 AM ,
Anonymous said...
Mr. Strang,
I am truly saddened and sickened by the Todd Bentely/Lakeland situation. God knows I really want to see his power and glory revealed in the earth...however, I am not willing to settle for any false substitute, based on lies or deception. As soon as I learned about his separation, I heard the Holy Spirit tell me that Todd Bentley took the "escape hatch of separation from his wife" in order to exit Lakeland before truly being "found out." I won't fully surmise as to what this means but I am quite certain it has something to do with the claim of at least 32 people being raised from the dead. Perhaps there is some evidence that I'm not aware of but I have not seen even one bona fide/verified report of such an instance. To me, being raised from the dead is a "big deal" and is a notable miracle and I would hope that if such a report exists, that it would be reported in Charisma Magazine. The only "evidence" I have found on the internet is that a man from England sent in a bogus claim.
My question to you, has Charisma taken the time/effort to investigate these 32 claims? If so, what are the results?
At August 29, 2008 8:13 AM ,
Anonymous said...
I am reading these comments and I am left with some of my own:
We should not judge Todd or his appearance, God (GOD) uses whomever he chooses to carry out his will and God does not look at the outward appearance but looks at the heart. When the BODY of CHRIST can stop the idle talking, and gossipping and judging and all that Paul expressively under God's anointing encouraged us not to do in Gal 6:15-21, then maybe we could take on GAL 6:22-26. So let us love one another and uphold one another with brotherly (kindly affectionate love for each other) and let us all remember that we all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. You will kind that when you speak LIFE in people's lives, this is an opportunity for them to prosper. Jesus did not come for the saved and perfect being, he came to seek and save the lost. NOT IN CONDEMNATION BUT IN LOVE. Concerning the angels, according to the word, the Angels are ministers spirits sent to the heirs of salvation heb 1:14
Leave Todd Bentley alone; Touch not God's Anointed, Do his Prophets no Harm, just because he looks different, has a different method, does not mean God is not with him. Be careful how you judge one another, if will come back to look you in the face. LOVE IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE THE ANSWER, UNTIL WE LOOK BEYOND WHAT WE THINK, some of us are not so much spiritual as we would have other to believe. Because we all have issues and instead of being on one accord, we break the body apart with strife, envy and dissension, wanting our opinions to be heard and adhered to. Well, God, not being the author of confusion is not pleased with his spotted and wrinkled body right about now, I believe we have once again failed a very important test of Love, one for another, which I might add is one of the commandment Jesus himself instructed us to walk in.
What has Love got to do with This? Absolutely everything.
Remove the beam out of your eyes, people of God, who dare to judge someone else, then you just may be able to help some one see (or get the mote out of their eyes )the error of their ways. mat 7:4. My prayer today is Lord that we all come into the unity of the faith, upholding one another in Love, so that we may walk worthy of you in all faithfullness with patience, joyfulness and longsuffering. AMEN
At August 29, 2008 8:20 AM ,
Caroline said...
Re: Dutch Sheets comments;
Yes this is the very passionate Dutch Sheets in top form!
I agree with everything he said but I do think he may be a little too fatalistic. Most (from what I saw) of the people who attended where mature Christians and I have to believe that they are able to handle this because we all recognize that we are in a battle, and ultimately good will come out of it. For those who where young in the Lord or new to the moving of His Spirit; “to their own Master they will stand or fall” God is well able to direct them to where He wants them to be in their most holy faith. He is not the least bit nervous about it. To the world that was watching; it has always been this way, but if they are truly seeking Truth, God will reveal it to them. I don’t lend credence to the devil in having the ability to capture those who have been appointed to Eternal life from before they where ever existing. Ps 139:16 amp
However, I whole heartedly agree with his statement about our (Christians) standard of measurement – our Discerning has been watered down by the world standard (in the name of “tolerance” (humanism), this way of thinking has crept into our midst).
God is indeed the one Who validates our assignment, and it was obvious to all that attended (even though most recognized the error) God was at work He poured Himself out upon us, we cannot and will not refute that!
At August 29, 2008 8:30 AM ,
Tammy said...
Very well put Mr. Strang. Don't fret those who accuse you have giving the wrong impression, you did not stand up there and endorse him as they did. You did not annoint him and put a ring on his finger. If he fell and they were out of the country, they should have sent someone in their place to begin the recovery process. This kind of reminds me of Katrina. The levies were in question before she hit. When that hurricane hit, many days went by before someone stood up and got to taking care of the recovery, which allowed mold and mildew to form in houses and in communities that could have been saved with a lot less work. We, as christians, have got to start looking at the problem before the hurricane hits. Lets learn, lets rebuild the breeched bridges, and quit expecting everyone to give us some time while many are dying and going to hell just because we could not get our ducks in a row and discern correctly. Its time the pentecostal community in this country stand up and say it is me God not obeying you, making a mockery of your word and your call. I was raised pentecostal and have since left. I wanted real..not spooky leading me.
At August 29, 2008 8:43 AM ,
Anonymous said...
Why is it so easy to be fooled by any slick car salesman that comes along and tickles our ears?
At August 29, 2008 8:54 AM ,
Elle Pyke said...
I am a young adult and read your son's Cameron Strang's magazine "Relevant". I am somewhat interested to know why they have been silent on this topic.
I find it somewhat interesting (from those that I personally know who went to the revival) that not a lot of young people were there. This revival seemed to attract 'older' generations. This is based on what I have heard first-hand, but also from the websites and blogs that I have read still endorsing Todd or even endorsing him in the first place. Very few of them are from youth or young adults.
I am unsure if you read these comments Mr. Strang, but I would submit to you that it would be wise to think of the future readership of your magazine. I would submit to you that youth and young adults are starting to sway toward more social justice projects and more practical avenues of serving Christ Jesus. Those in my age bracket are starting to invest time and money into programs that serve the poor, serving overseas and serving those in need. Those in my age brackets are buying books written by people like Shaine Claibourne and Donald Miller, not necessarily for their theological content, but because we see them doing something. Books on "Spiritual gift tests", "Prosperity Now:" and "Angelic Visitations" are losing their ground with people my age. We are tired of hearing about concepts that we can't even understand, or that the bible is actually silent on. We need to see some hands and feet, we need to see some humility and we are desperate to find someone in leadership, someone in authority to show it to us.
I would submit to you, Mr Strang, that was proponents of the charismatic movement pray for revival, that perhaps God is answering your prayers. This revival is not the kind you would see on a stage.
Not the kind that would be headed up by one "annointed" leader, no celebrity or mega-church.
Not the kind of revival that broadcasts over televison or the internet.
But a revival that hits the streets.
A revival where the hungry are fed. The thirsty are given a cup of water in Jesus name. Where the peace teachings of Jesus are seen as more than just a suggestion, but as a commandment. That living simply so that others may simply live is a way of life. That people see Jesus as more than just a "personal fulfilment" guru, but that He is beauty and truth and life. A revival that people actually pick up their cross and die daily in. That people start to see genocide and starvation come to an end. That we see preventable diseases and education problems in third-world nations solved. That we see Jesus, like really see His hands and His feet practicing radical enemy love, and working for a revolution in how we love our brothers and sisters.
I would submit to you, Mr Strang, that one day your readership will care very little about Todd Bentley. They will care very little about another "outpouring" in San Francisco. One day, those who searched for an "annointing" in Lakeland will be dead and gone. And a generation will rise of those who grew up hearing the modern day prophets speak about justice, love and peace, instead of angels, astro projection and money.
It would please me nothing more than to see you turn your ear to the cries of your son's generation, and those who follow behind him. Turn your ear to the cry of a generation who would love for Todd Bentley to join in the revolution, not to lay hands and "bam" someone, but to pick up a ladle and spoon out soup for the homeless.
Mr Strang, it is with utmost respect that I write this to you. And with the utmost prayer that you take time to read my words.
At August 29, 2008 9:03 AM ,
carowis said...
I reinterate-God will show up and honor people who are hungry and seeking Him, no matter where or what the circumstances. These people were hungry and seeking. That is who God is and what He does, because He is God and is Soverign.
Have we lost our ability to discern the Spirit? How can we forget what Mark 13:22 says "For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect."
Folks, we are living in the end times. We ALL need to watch and pray and above all ask for discernment, lest we all fall by the wayside.
At August 29, 2008 9:13 AM ,
carowis said...
One other thing-Perhaps some of the problem is that it is MAN today who endorses and commissions minsiters instead of the Holy Spirit. We in the church have gotten away from the times when we prayed for the Holy Spirit to show an anointing before we put our endorcement/commission on someone. The good old days had a lot more caution when doing the work of God. We need to return to this caution and discernment. Kingdom work will always require us to allow the Spirit to lead the way. Many just got too far ahead of the Spirit...but to err is human and we can only (all of Us) ask God to forgive us and move on with greater caution, discernment and pleading for the Spirit to lead us. We should never get ahead of the Spirit of God-this is fire in Satan's hands to undermine the church in the last days to facilitate a great falling away and wounding evangelistic efforts.
At August 29, 2008 9:52 AM ,
Naa Koshie said...
Thank you Mr. Strang for talking about this right from the start. What I am a little confused about though is whether we as Christians have the right reaction to the news of Todd Bentley's fall. Are questions and doubts rising up about the authenicity of his ministry because he is separated from his wife or are they rising up because some of his actions were unscriptural? I know that from the beginning your columns have pointed out such unscriptural oddities in his ministry but I guess my question is to those of us who jumped on the bandwagon and are now distancing ourselves because he has 'fallen'. Are we only supportive of someone when they seem to be neat and clean and have no moral failings or sin or do we see that even though the person is a man of God, he is still a man ..he is still an earthern vessel even though there is treasure in him. Do our alarm bells only go off when someone falls morally or are we trying to discern even when everything seems clean. We must not be ignorant of the devices of the enemy as Apostle Paul said because his tactics have not changed...'go after neither great or small but only the king of Israel' (to paraphase the scripture from the book of Kings). The devil goes after big guns in ministry because of where they stand, let's remember that when we think about the recent morally failings of some of our ministry greats. They are under intense spiritual attack because of the offices they occupy. Of course this is not to excuse the part they may have played by giving in to disobedience but we must remember that unless we have walked in their shoes and occupied their offices and faced the pressures that they have faced successfully and not succumbed then we are not in the right position to pass judgement. Our best response is to take lessons from their fall (find out how we can best protect ourselves from going the way they went), and most importantly to pray for them as spiritual Christians.
Let's not dog our brothers and sisters when they fall or doubt the authenicity of their calling because they sin (for we all sin, it is just that our lives are not at the level where it is newsworthy). Let's remember that just as great power demands great responsibility (and accountability to those who are looking up to you) so also great power comes with a great deal of attack from the enemy's camp. Let's make sure we are praying for our spiritual leaders and walking in discernment, so we don't go off judging people who may have genuine callings but just fell or don't go off swallowing unbiblical things because we are afraid to burst the emperor's bubble.
Thank you.
At August 29, 2008 10:23 AM ,
Ron in Oregon said...
It is funny to watch someone backtrack after someone told them the emperor has no clothes. My wife and I saw this in April, a month before your magazine published a glowing article about this charlatan. My wife has grown up in th AOG and I was saved there in 1970, so we are not main line Presbyterians, or the like. Apparently his theology is not a factor in your thinking, and that is frightening. All the junk that goes on with people's emotional reactions is just a distraction from the real focus on angels, Bob Jones and the rest of the self-appointed prophets and apostles that take one verse in the Bible out of context and set themselves up as little gods themselves. I grieve for Shonna and the family, but I grieve more for the people that go with the emotional flow and don't trust scripture. To see Stacey Campbell and her demonic spirit on the stage June 23rd was frightening. To think that a group of "God's chosen" stood around and let it happen is worse. Thanks for climbing on the wagon 4 months late!
At August 29, 2008 10:41 AM ,
Michael Montague said...
I went to the Revival in Lakeland, and the Worship there was awesome. Roy Fields did an awesome job of leading believers into the presence of God, this was true in spite of everything else that was going on. I am reminded of Psalms 23 where it says, "He prepares a table before me in the presence of my enemies. We were feasting on Jesus, regardless of all of the other junk that was going on. My hope is in Jesus, not Todd Bentley. I have seen many Preachers get "off track", but Jesus' love remains true. People in America are crying out for Revival, and I believe that another "Great Awakening" is coming and that very soon. God is faithful to the cries of His children. Americans (I am one) have no excuse, and no reason to point the finger when we have our own dirty laundry (slavery, abortion,pornography, etc....)and skeletons in the closet. There is none righteous, no not one. The only perfect person I know of was Jesus, He died on the cross of Calvary for ALL sinners, and He has risen to ever intercede for us. The best is yet to come!
Michael M - Baton Rouge,La
At August 29, 2008 11:04 AM ,
Anonymous said...
I read all of the commends which I usually never do That brings me to first one question. If T.B. had all his tattoos done the last 18 month? Can any one tell me what are the designs of those?
I also like the commends of Joseph and the person from Aug 29 at 8.13 and all the people who wrote like that.
1000 of people came every day to Lakeland to worship Jesus and receive healing or....
Just when Jesus was on earth he said: YOUR faith has made you whole..
When we worship Jesus in Spirit and Truth, he is there, because he honors his Word and worship for him in spite of imperfect people.
I have seen to many dead churches with unbelief with no healing and miracles, but strife and back biting, I take those miracles in Lakeland any time over those other churches. Balance is the key!
We all have the respons. to be grounded in the Word of God and not go by feelings and action alone.
And to many christian I meet are wonderful people but are not rooted in the Word of God and therefore shaken by any wind of doctrine.
It is not the pastors responsibility, but my own to spend time in the Word and let the Holy Spirit and good teaching tapes help me get grounded in the Word of God.
I fully agree with Joseph, our God is bigger than having TB mistakes or shortcomings???? bring down his church. May be just shake the ones with no roots in the Word a little.
We also had now enough of the commends of we told you so and I didn't fall for it. Praise the Lord for it! But it is time to show the love of Jesus which we are called to do and move on in this calling. I bet that many of TB 's former so called friends and advisers have left his ship like rats to cover their own reputation instead of correcting him but loving and sticking by.
My name is Ingrid and I approve this message
At August 29, 2008 12:00 PM ,
Ron in Oregon said...
To Michael I would ask, why would you need to go to a meeting with such false preaching? The worship is emotional manipulation to work the crowd into a frenzy. Half the time the worship was unintelligible screaming (we watched a great deal over 4 months). We are to use Biblical application and judge what is going on. When you go to a "revival" that preaches angels and portals you disqualify yourself from discernment. That preaching is New Age at best. Do you not realize that the enemy can do signs and wonders? To use emotional justification and signs and wonders is extremely unscriptural, and dangerous. When contacted by ABC News Nightline the Bentley camp gave "proof" of the healings that was so redacted that they were incapable of being read. It was As the pastor said in Lee Grady's article, "I am afraid the charismatice church will follow the anti-christ their discernment is so lacking".
At August 29, 2008 1:04 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Mr. Strang;
I think the real issue now is discernment from ICA leaders, Todd was human and messed up like many do and should be showed love and forgiveness but the Peter Wagner and other ICA members are not owning up to their mistakes and have and will continue to give out false prophecies and false visions and act as super apostles and really need to be dealt with.
They can’t be trusted as leaders anymore and something has to be done, they need to be accountable to someone for there actions. Todd had to step down from ministry so why should they not be required to step down. Their lack or discernment and false prophecies are a serious indicator that they are not who they claim to be and don’t have the authority that they claim and should not be leading anyone and someone needs to hold them accountable.
At August 29, 2008 1:25 PM ,
Anonymous said...
I agree with the comment above on ICA leaders not owning up their mistakes. I really don't want to blame Todd alone, I'm more upset with the leadership of ICA. I am especially disappointed with Dr. Wagner.
At August 29, 2008 1:35 PM ,
Lucy Roberts said...
The fact that those in the Charismatic community may be regarded as nutty or fanatical must be weighed in with the concerns of this article, namely that there is not enough 'covering' or governing over those who are young in the faith and learning to experience God in more than just a 'mental understanding'. It is not 'nutty' or irresponsible to learn to feel God's touch and respond to Him rightly! Those who are young in the faith and inexperienced in knowing Him in this way may be swayed in the WRONG direction, as those who are so concerned have been, and instead of experiencing God more will be likely to shutdown any experience of Him that they feel! And this would truly be tragic! I would rather take the shaking and jerking and learning to fall out in the Spirit any day over stifling and making oneself UNavailable to God's touch! We need safe arenas in which to 'learn' to experience God more! Lakeland was one such place. Aside from man's view of things and man's prideful attempts at 'looking good' and having it all right for man's sake, the appearance of things, Lakeland was no failure! We all experienced God more strongly! We need to welcome God amidst our human messiness regardless of who feels intimidated or tempted to turn up their nose at such things! It really doesn't matter WHAT man thinks in the grand scheme of things! It only matters what God thinks and His is the only opinion that will ever matter! Jerk me around, Lord, if it helps me feel you and know you better! And I don't care WHAT man thinks! I just want you.
by Keith Green...To obey is better than sacrifice. I don't need your money I want your life, and I hear you say that I'm coming back soon, but you act like I'll never return! You pray to prosper and succeed, but your flesh is something I just can't feed!...
In the same way, He won't feed our fleshly nonsense that 'worries' about how we look in the eyes of man, either! He won't show up in our pretense or our religious 'clothes', but He will move on and touch a childlike heart that is open to Him!
At August 29, 2008 2:06 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Thank you for your current post, Mr. Strang. My favorite story since childhood is the "Emperor's New Clothes."
In the version of the story I have, the swindlers told the Emperor that the cloth they were making was invisible to anyone who was unfit for his office or stupid.
(If you don't believe in Emma,you must be stupid.)
Of course, when he looked at the empty loom, he feared he was unfit to be Emperor.
(If you don't have 3rd heaven encounters, you can't be spiritual.)
He asked an honest old minister of his kingdom to come in and judge the looks of the cloth. The minister didn't see anything either, but he decided to be cautious and pretend along with the Emperor, too.
(If this is of God, and I miss it, I will look like an old fool!)
No one wanted to appear unworthy, or less than others.
(No one will buy my books or come to my conferences any more!)
In fact, everybody in town heard about it, and many turned out just to see how stupid their neighbors were!
(If you don't agree with Lakeland, you must be a Pharisee- like the revival police!)
After all, if anyone dared to speak up, they must be unworthy of their office!
(Not one of the anointed leaders of our movement!)
Many people remember the part of the story when an innocent child exposed what everyone already knew: "The Emperor has nothing on!"
(The prophecies didn't come to pass- in fact they were dead wrong-every one!)
In fact, the child's words did not go unheeded. The whole crowd at last cried out that the Emperor was naked.
(Christians began a great outcry, Charisma even wrote editorials!)
But, sadly to say, The Emperor continued on, thinking he must go on with the procession, and he held himself up in an even more dignified manner, with his servants holding up his imaginary train behind him.
(The religious system goes marching on - whether or not truth is marching with them!)
When will the fairy tale end?
Life is real. The world needs Jesus. The church needs Jesus even more.
We need to repent for our foolish ways. We need to turn back to the true prophetic Word of God, not continue to heed the voice of the swindlers and charlatans.
Let the Emperor keep walking naked; we don't need to follow.
We need to return to the Lord, and follow him, even if it means a cross.
Judith Desjardins
judetheobscure
At August 29, 2008 3:42 PM ,
Anonymous said...
I am of the camp of people who fairly early on, began to question what was taking place in Lakeland. My husband, an Assoc. Pastor was deeply concerned about the lack of the preaching of the Word of GOD; I was concerned about this as well, but I also had concerns about appearences of Mr. Bently (tatoos, piercings, etc.). As the services continued, our church also began to participate and one Friday night, we even held the service via the internet. Although there has always been a serious check in my spirit, because I love and admire my leadership, I pressed into the watching of these services whenever I could....as time went by, I wrote an extensive letter to the Pastoral staff at our church because I was deeply concerned in my spirit. I was searching scripture and trying not to have a 'judging' attitude or as some like to put it, a 'religeous spirit'....the short of the long of it, I was somewhat reprimanded by one of the staff ...I should just enter in and let the LORD deal with him (TB), if need be....the other staff member, our Sr. Pastor called and we talked about it and he was very respectful of my thoughts. I called one other minister because I certainly did not want to be one judging & criticising unfairly and I simply couldn't let it go. This person said she'd been watching the services some but really felt not drawn to them at all. Without a doubt, the Lakeland issue has and did put a rift in our tiny little church. I have no doubt the we love the LORD deeply and all want His Presence more and more, but in the midst of that, some were willing to accept the bizare and whatnot as GOD, basically the same as the article pointed out. From the onset of my awareness of this 'outpouring', I believe I heard the LORD say that it was a 'diversion' and a 'distraction'. Meaning what? Possibly that we were purposly being diverted from the real because we are desparate for something. I was basically 'mummed'. I'm not at all saing that I'm glad Mr. Bently has fallen and that his marriage is in trouble. I am, however, comforted that the LORD has not allowed this to continue and perhaps we will truely learn from it and in the future, when HE is truely pouring out HIS Presence, we'll recognize this and not fall for the conterfit, at all.
At August 29, 2008 4:26 PM ,
Ron in Oregon said...
I do not understand why people would be upset WITH the ICA. The problem is that the ICA with it's false doctrine leading to the false apostles and prophets even exists. Ephesians 2:20 says that the apostles and prophets made up the foundation of the church with Christ as the cornerstone. I have never built a building but have added an addition onto our house. When we did that we laid ONE foundation. The Apostles of Ephesians 4:11 are the ones that we read when we open our Bibles. Same with the prophets. The ICA and all the other phony organizations like it are just men stting themselves up as authorities by misinterpreting Scripture. Please study the Word people!
At August 29, 2008 6:18 PM ,
Anonymous said...
I wonder How many fathers and mothers of the faith will continue to embrace him?
I wonder if Mr Bently does not have a longing for the love and touch of a Manly father and a womanly Mother, since these are gone missing in his early childhood years and what a revelation they are of our Heavenly Father?
I wonder what lessons we can learn from this and apply to our own lives?
At August 29, 2008 6:20 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Let's not only pray for Shonna and the children; let's also pray for the unidentified female staffer. I hope she is not outcast and shunned while Todd received the healing and counsel.
At August 29, 2008 6:23 PM ,
Amy said...
My husband and I went to the outpouring June 1. We always go with a heart that's open to receive from the Lord. We are always careful to go in with the gift of discernment of spirits operating. We are finding that the testing of spirits is so vital at this hour as there is much deception taking place in the Body of Christ. After we left the revival that night we had a discussion about how there was an unsettleing in our spirit as to what was going on. We prayed and
the Lord had given us 4 'Words of Knowledge' about the Florida Outpouring. The four words: HYPE, MOSS, OUTPOURING, FLOW. Whenever the Lord gives a 'Word of Knowledge' 'Word of Wisdom' be sure to look it up in the Dictionary. This was the answer the Lord had given us and these 'Words" exposed the leadership and outpouring as not being led of Him but of man. I challenge you to look these Words up. I found that J Lee Grady had mentioned the word, 'hype' in one of his articles about the revival. Looks as if he had received a word on this. We also went a step further and researched Todd Bently. If you have not seen Todd's tattoos I challenge you to take a close look at them. A few of them are demonic and Todd received his tattos, which cover most of his body, after he stared preaching. My question is this???????
Who are these leaders that endorsed Bentley accountable too?
They need to be exposed for their lack of Discernment and we need to be cautious of these self proclaimed Prophet/Apostle titles.
I believe that the body has become a respector of persons and it is time to be a respector of our Father in Heaven and open our ears to hear His voice.....Satan is appearing as an angel of light and his time is short....
Body of Christ, may we learn from this. Test every spirit to see if it is of the Lord Jesus....The great harvest is ripe and about ready to bring in.
Let's allow the Holy Spirit, not angels or man, lead the next move of God.
AMEN
At August 29, 2008 6:34 PM ,
Anonymous said...
JUDGEMENT BEGINS WITH THE HOUSE OF GOD
Before judgement can fall on the nations. God will deal with the church.
We need REPENTANCE.
REVIVAL will come after repentance.
At August 29, 2008 7:40 PM ,
Anonymous said...
The Word of God tells us to know those that labor among us. We are to know their character and lifestyles. Todd Bentley preached many false doctrines and did many bizarre things in Lakeland. Many were blinded to his insane ministry. WE NOW KNOW FOR 100% CERTAIN that Todd was living with another woman, drunk most nights, and any sincere Bible knowledge should have deeply concerned people about his heretical doctrines. However, when he confessed his affair with another woman and applied for divorce, he was rejected by all those who endorsed him and he became exposed as a liar. Church leadership rejected his ministry and called him to repentance. Some his peers say that they are ministering to him now and claim that he has repented but we have not heard a word from his lips. Mostly the entire churches AROUND THE world have rejected Bentley because of his sinful lifestyle of womanizing and drinking and rightly so. Pat Holliday
http://www.scribd.com/doc/5200686/TODD-BENTLEY-MATTHEW-STEPHENS-Stephen-Bening-False-PROPHETS-ASK-GOD-TO-KILL-PAT-HOLLIDAY-
So how can Christian leaders who were set over Bentley in the June 23 "alignment and commissioning" ceremony at the Lakeland Outpouring minister to him behind the scenes when they themselves need deliverance for being deceivers if not repentance for not discerning and for not stepping up to the plate to put Todd in his place before June 23? They cannot because they are also hypocrites and false ones who are no different than Todd Bentley
At August 29, 2008 8:50 PM ,
Patricia said...
When all is said and done, we, the body of Christ, seems to have lost the proper perspective of what worship really is.
First of all, God the Father, expects and demands reverence. We are to be in awe of Him. Not fear as most people would think of fear, but we must get back to the basics of who God is. Go back and re-read the "Our Father, Who art in Heaven" prayer that Jesus taught to the disciples, when they asked Him to teach them how to pray. When we disrespect our Heavenly Father, then how in the world can we get the people to take us seriously.
It seems to me that many people who come before the Lord, in worship, do not care how they look, or how they are dressed.
We, who profess to be Christians, need to look at the scriptures again that says we should approach God reverently. We are to be Holy because He is Holy.
Tattos, body piercings, tattered clothes, short shorts and tank tops may be okay if a person was used to this type of apparel before receiving salvation and getting discipled, but after salvation and receiving scriptural teachings and doctrine straight out of the Bible, then that person should be on the road to becoming a mature Christian. New Christians need to be taught how to approach God reverently. That includes the more mature women in the church needs to be teaching the younger women a better way to come into the house of worship. That also means that the Elders and Deacons are to do the same for the men who also need to be instructed and taught to the proper way to come into the house of worship.
The Bible talks about we are a new creation, therefore, we are to take off the old and put on the new.
Yes, you may call me old-fashioned, but I say that most of the body of Christ, including the pastors, evangelists, teachers, have become too lax in how they are dressed and how they approach the Most Holy One who is worthy of all praise.
Oh, don't tell me that God looks at the heart and not at the outside. I have gotten to the point where I don't believe that anymore.
The heart is a deceiver, and looks do matter.
Yes, there is grace, mercy and compassion extended by God.
But, when a person has marked their body in such a way after becoming saved, then I have to question their salvation and their devotion to the Living God who deserves ALL honor.
I really do not believe that anyone who dresses like that would be allowed to approach the Queen of England, the President of our United States, any dignitary of another country. This would be the height of disrespect and dishonor of the status of that person.
Since God the Father and Jesus, the Son deserves to be honored because of who they are, then people like Todd Bentley and others like him, do not need to be in a leadership position.
I would not want anyone like that to teach and lead my children or grandchildren. Peer pressure is bad enough without subjecting our youth to someone else who thinks these actions are okay.
I have not seen any postings on here that would address this type of issue as regards to our young people. We need truly Godly men and women leaders in the church and in campmeetings and in revivals.
I say that we all need to lift up Todd and his family, in prayer, and yes, extend mercy, grace, and compassion to all of those involved. However, we should not be making excuses for any of this farce.
Father God, we ask, in the name of Jesus, that you restore Todd and his family, and any and all other leaders who have failed to do what Your Word says that we must do.
satan, we bind you, in the name of Jesus, the name that is above all names, to the cross of Calvary.
We command you, in the name of Jesus, to take your hands off of this family and these leaders. You have no rights to them.
Father God, we ask that You send down blessings, peace, comfort, and restoration to this family. We ask, in your Son's name, that you put a hedge of protection around them; that no weapon formed against them will prosper.
We ask that you give them more faith that they will be conquerors and that you give them more wisdom, so that when Your timing is right, there will be no doubts as to Who You are, and the destiny that You have for Todd and the other leaders. Amen!
At August 29, 2008 8:59 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Some asked about documenting a "real" miracle or healing, and I can attest that a young boy from our church was healed in his eyes and no longer needs glasses. He had severe astigmatism and now sees perfectly without his glasses. Were there problems at Lakeland? Most definitely. Was there error in preaching? Yes. But God, in spite of it, honored the hunger and faith of His children and still met needs and healed. Now let us learn from this, and pray for the Bentley family--there but for the grace of God could be any of us. We can't throw stones, and yes we must acknowledge the sin and blatant heresy--but let us repent and fall on our faces before God and cry out for true revival. Let us worship Jesus Christ, the True Lord, and only Him.
At August 29, 2008 9:39 PM ,
Anonymous said...
we are getting distracted by the truth here- the truth is that the Lord was pouring out his spirit on all flesh. the truth is also that the holiness of God brought the bentleys relationship to the surface. maybe the question is therefore how come hidden stuff in church does not get exposed- oh thats because the holy spirit is restricted. Glory to god- lets stop trying to control him and letting the pharisees get glory in this situation
At August 29, 2008 11:18 PM ,
James said...
I think it is time we moved on. Too much talk will only worsen the situation. Let those who are directly connected with Lakeland and Todd take care of it, while others pray and intercede. There is a world outside the USA where millions have not evean heard about Jesus. May be you should shift your focus to India where there is wide spread persecution of Christians. James
At August 30, 2008 4:05 AM ,
Anonymous said...
I understand the sentiment that it's "time to move on." While we can move beyond focusing on Todd's moral failings, tattoos, and ministry style, I feel it's imperative we not ignore some of the deeper problems Lakeland revealed about some parts of the charismatic movement. Lakeland was most certainly a symptom, not THE issue in itself. Some have already discussed here...the lack of knowledge/reliance on scripture, focus on man rather than God, including self apointed apostles/prophets, people hooked on an emotional or religious "fix," and so on.
I am not trying to get too off- subject here, but I believe what came out of Lakeland is the fruit of what began decades ago with the Kansas City prophets, and specifically Bob Jones. I think this needs to be looked into. Many of these teachings are linked in part to Latter Rain doctrine. The ICA was birthed from some of these beliefs about the end times and our role as Christians at this critical hour. I don't believe all of it is off, but some of the theology borders on us becoming "little gods," which is actually an anti-Christ spirit.
I am NOT a "heresy hunter." Until a few weeks ago, I was an Elijah List reader. But I can't help but wonder if God is using Lakeland to expose the ICA and this segment of the charismatic movement. The fact that Mr. Strang and Mr. Grady are linked to this organization while simulaneously calling out Lakeland gives me pause.
May God hear our heartfelt cry for mercy and discernment in these troubling times!
At August 30, 2008 6:05 AM ,
Lila said...
For seven years my husband and I have disassociated ourselves from movements like the Lakeland revival, the prophetic groups and others that emphasize outward manifestations.
Looking back, I see our former zeal for these things as dysfunctional. We truly have no permanent fruit from our experiences of being "prophesied over," falling out "in the Spirit," and running from conference to conference in the hopes of catching some dribble of "anointing."
We now see how deeply we disrespected ourselves. We witnessed all sorts of strange practices, yet dismissed whispers of unease because we were being continuously taught that the things of God are foolish.
One more point: I'm glad that Todd Bentley and his wife are receiving pastoral care and counseling. You've also asked that your readers pray for them. Very well, but what about care, counseling and prayer for the masses of people that flocked to hear, see and experience what Bentley was espousing? Didn't Jesus have compassion for the sheep who had no shepherd? I'll be blunt. This rush to shore up the errant minister while his followers are left to resolve dashed hopes on their own demonstrates an imbalance in the Body of Christ.
At August 30, 2008 8:01 AM ,
Anonymous said...
These are truly the last days, as we are seeing even the elect be deceived. I am glad that there is a credible outlet for us to discuss this very serious topic. What has not been talked about concerning Lakeland is the fact that witches and warlocks and a very heavy demonic presence was also resident there. I was there June 6, 7, and 8, attending the evening services. On June 6, after the service had ended, my friend and I saw a young man (with piercings and tatoos) build an alter in the parking lot. Of course, we rebuked it in the name of Jesus, and then went about our business. The next day, June 7, we went to the evening service and almost immediately discerned serious spiritual warfare. The atmosphere was so thick with a demonic presence that I could not stay in the tent. After walking around and praying in the spirit for about 30 minutes inside the tent, the "slime" that I felt and the aggitation to my spirit was so great I had to go outside. (I would rather be a doorkeeper than to dwell in the tents of the wicked!!!) We were outside for at least 2 hours because I sensed that there would be a contamination or some type of impartation because of the heavy demonic presence. During this time (while praying inside and then outside), by the Holy Spirit, we were discerning (my fried and I separated and then got together to compare notes)witches and warlocks. While we were outside, one by one we saw these SAME people that we discerned to be witches and warlocks go to an area behind the tent, that we believed an alter had been set up. As confirmation, I went to The Call in DC and met a lady named Kim (don't know last name) who led praise and worship during the day in Lakeland, who told me that they would find all types of devil worship items on the platform and other areas. Kim is also the praise and worship leader for Dutch Sheets and Chuck Pierce.
And by the way, do you know that Chuck Pierce has been teaching the Body of Christ Kabballah through his Issachar teaching? Yes, Kabballah, numerology, astrology, and new age mysticism. I'm in Atlanta and there is this network of small churches that follows whatever he says. This same little network of deceived churches held 2 rounds of meetings called "Atlanta Burn" because of a prophetic word from Todd Bently to Jim Drown that he was to carry that same anointing to Atlanta. The meetings were total failures and an embarassment (as I heard from those in attendance), as God was not in it. Again, I am a firsthand witness to this CULT that has formed under the guise of the "Prophet."
Since 2005, God has placed me right in the middle of all of this to see for myself the deception He talked about in the Bible. In 2006, God told me he was going to expose the False Prophets. He needs to clean up the Church before the Great Outpour, so He's been dealing with Defiled Priests (Catholic Church), Corrupt Kings (Sen. Grassley's 6), and now He is focused on False Prophets. As you well know, in the Old Testament, it was always the Defiled Priests, Corrupt Kings and the False Prophets that led the nation of Israel astray. As it is today, God is dealing with False Prophets, Corrupt Kings and Defiled Priests. We should not be surprised or dismayed at what is taking place right before our eyes, because the SURE prophetic word that is written in the Bible is being brought to complete fulfillment.
At August 30, 2008 9:20 AM ,
Anonymous said...
I am not commenting directly on Lakeland as it is not the first mishap in the body of Christ and probably will not be the last. I will share what I have learned in my human fraility.
I was at one time involved in the Charismatic and Pentecostal churches, I sat under the teachings of a very good teacher however when I believed things to move away from what is the simplicity of the gospel I made a change to a Bible teaching fundamental church. When I say move away I include moving away from reflecting a warmth of Christ's love outwardly to the community as it is huge! I believe to date in miracles and many of the things I embraced with my focus on the "Author" of my faith.
My youngest son remained in the church I left and struggled with many prophesies that were prophesied over him; prophesies which instructed him what his place in life was to be as a "cup bearer" and then instructed by someone guiding him that he shouldn't date and why. My son struggled with the seemingly controlling aspect of this guidance and didn't feel inwardly that this was right and approached me. There is more detail to what he went through; my son wanted me to answer yet I advised him to keep it simple and focus on the simplicity of Christ and not get so caught up in what was happening and hear from God himself. Being impressionable and wanting to please God he tried struggled seeking God for answers; he later found the young pastor who instructed him not to do something fell in the area where my son was weak. It was difficult and very devastating.
When we take our eyes off "The author and finisher of our faith," and put them on "Signs and Wonders" or on a man, we lose sight of what truly should be our guidance which is the Word of God and a developed relationship with Christ. Regardless of my status in life, in church or out of church I know when I've moved away from God. From my youth the word of God has been living and active as God has remained faithful. I would not be here today had it not been so.
At August 30, 2008 9:57 AM ,
Anonymous said...
There were many who spoke up about Lakeland and urged "caution". These were not the usual voices who find fault with everything that does not fall into the "old time religion" category. Most of the cautions came from "small voices"...people who had no titles or are not "famous" in any way. When we spoke we were told God would punish us, that God was going to judge us, that we were all going to hell. We were amazed at the violent responses to what we said. There are voices speaking out...they just were not heard. Many in the Body of Christ and those in "leadership" have become blind and deaf because they have fallen into and bought into the doctrines of men and demons.
At August 30, 2008 11:48 AM ,
Anonymous said...
Really enjoyed these comments from the body of Christ on this blog even though they almost all seemed to be after the fact. There were many statements made about the leaders and body lacking spiritual discernment. I too saw TB on TV as I flicked through the Christian channels. I found no interest in another hard core converted Charistmatic trying to build his ministry before the kingdom of God.
I left it alone and paid no attention to TB because it was none of my business at that time. When TB started to grow in popularity and friends started asking me what I thought about TB and the Lakeland outpouring, I felt responsible to look into it a little closer in order to give my friends my honest Biblical answer and not what some one else said. I had to see TB through the Bible as I know it to see if what he was saying and doing was strongly Bible based. I found many discrepancies in his teachings, actions and mentors of which I stood against right away even if it was unpopular and might of cost me friends at that time. Isn't this what is meant by discernment. Paul was called a scum and became unpopular for standing for truth and exposing nontruths. I was not happy at the time I stood against my friends because they wanted to follow and eat everything TB said because every one else was, even our famous well known leaders. I hope this will end up being a lesson to the body of Charismatic believer of which I am one. That first being we cannot continue to follow anyone because of signs, miracles or popularity it brings or because our popular leaders endorsing it.
I was told not to judge God's annointed leaders but I say that is OT because we are all God's annointed in NT and the true leaders are now leaders being servants, not popularity icons. Only Jesus should be our King and icon.
At August 30, 2008 3:41 PM ,
JohnKing said...
I am NOT a "heresy hunter." Until a few weeks ago, I was an Elijah List reader. But I can't help but wonder if God is using Lakeland to expose the ICA and this segment of the charismatic movement. The fact that Mr. Strang and Mr. Grady are linked to this organization while simulaneously calling out Lakeland gives me pause.
The Elijah list bunch has been manufacturing things for years,from outright new age stuff to just plain time wasting silliness.
I watched it from "birth" to marketplace. Its shocking that the place has any following among christians.
Charisma always shows up a day late and a dollar short with their "corrections", you buy ads, sell subscriptions, you don't get "touched".
Juanita Bynums circus went on for years without a peep from Strang and Company but when the conference ad dollars stop, the "correction" comes.
Charisma is not what I would call "honest" in its dealings with christians, you would do well to be circumspect in what comes out of them. They are a business first, not a ministry.
At August 30, 2008 4:43 PM ,
Reg said...
Dear Brother Strang August 30, 2008
My name is Reg Sappie, I am an Elder at a small Charismatic Church call Praise Tabernacle in southern New Jersey.
The Lord dropped something in my spirit the morning of my birthday 8-27-08.
I began to think about the turmoil in Lakeland, and the Lord reminded of the “Summer Snow” prophecy that was given in our Prophetic Class back in 2007. He only said two words to me, “Snow Job”. In discussing this with my wife Thoris, I said that snow blankets everything and makes everything look pure and good, but when the snow melts, everything is the same and nothing is changed. I looked back to see the exact prophecy regarding Virginia’s dream of snow in summer (which I cannot find now), but the first one I did find was Dr.Gina Mog’s word about snow in the August 2007 prophecies which seems to fit at least in my mind. Below is her Prophecy:
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“ Snow in Summer. He sent me to - Pro 26:1 “Like snow in summer, or rain in harvest, so honor is not fitting for a fool. In my bible the interpretation “honor is not fitting for a fool is this: Sometimes when someone in a group causes discord or dissension, the leader tries to make him loyal and productive by giving him a place of privilege or responsibility. This usually does not work. In fact it’s like tying the stone to the sling – it won’t go anywhere and will swing back and hurt you (like snow in summer – its inappropriate and futile (my words). The dissenter’s in power and may be just what he needs to manipulate the group.
I think it is appropriate to pray against this.”
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It is my understanding that the Pastor of Ignited Church was concerned about some of Todd’s theology and therefore called on his fellow Apostles to help. Peter Wagner, the head Apostle, decided to commission Todd. I see it as ‘ snow in summer’ trying to make Todd, loyal and productive by giving him a place of privilege or responsibility. Ordaining Todd into their oversight before any correction was brought forth, thus fulfilling this prophecy.
It is interesting when it looks like a prophecy from our church may concern the worldwide Body of Christ.
I do recall a prophetic word I gave --I believe it was Saturday June 14 08 when Jeff Beacham was our guest speaker.
Smoke was in the air from a big fire south of us in the Carolinas. The Lord quickened to me –“Where there is smoke there is fire”.--- In hindsight now I do remember that Pastor Roger used that expression for the first revelation of a fallen leader, possibly He used it in the Ted Haggart situation.
Incidentally, I found this in my e-mail notes to our Pastor Steve from way back when I was looking into Pat King and praying for Discernment when the ladies wanted to bring her for their ladies retreat:
Last Thurs 12-13- 07 on the way to work on the Parkway south I see this big white rental truck that says Bentley written on the back. A truck right in front of that says PODS or Pods on Demand –storage truck. In my mind I think—check out Todd Bentley –
On his web site I find out Angels have been appearing to him. First impressions, the guy has many tattoos on his arms and a diamond thru his lower lip. Something’s not right. Again He may mean well but like the person who appeared to Paul Cain -they could in fact be demons disguised as angels of light.
If Pat King commissioned his ministry by prophecy and she and only those who know how, are leading group tours to heaven, it make me a little uneasy about the source of these manifestations.
I have not viewed rest of Todds videos—I will get back you.
Reg
Hi Steve Thursday Dec 20 2007
I talked to Josh (our youth Pastor who has been involved with Fresh Fire Ministry) last night and He received what I was saying and He will proceed with caution.
Reg
From: Sappie, Harry “Reg”
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 1:09 PM --sappie7@comcast.net
To: rahter@juno.com
Subject: More Discernment
Hi (Pastor) Steve
A legend says that Saint Francis had a vision of an angel who excised the stigmata on the saint's hands and legs with five rays of light.
I say beware of Angels appearing to people today. We are to test the spirits.
Maroni appeared to Joseph Smith and look what happened- Polygamy and abuse and slavery of young girls forced to marry old men.
2Co 11:13 For such ones are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
:14 Did not even Satan marvelously transform himself into an angel of light?
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works.
Im sure St Francis, Wm Branham, Dowie, (who both got into error in the end, proclaiming that they were the end-times "Elijah"), Paul Cain, Pat King and Todd Bently all have good intentions but you know what they say about good intentions.
Demon Angels can easily do miracles.
In Todd Bently case he saw a flaming angel come thru the ceiling of his hotel room. Soon after the two rooms above his were burned out by a real FIRE—Did God send a check to the Hotel for the damage –I don’t think so—but the devil comes to steal and destroy. Todd thinks its cute none of his friends want to say in rooms above him. Something doesn’t smell right. Where there is smoke there is fire—no pun intended. Todd was also taken up in a pillar of fire and operated on by angels who put truth boxes in his inner parts—operations very similar to people abducted by space people. (I say –demon aliens )
Check out (my wife) Thoris’ s dream back in Oct.
We should warn Josh of the danger.
Reg
Thoris Sappie
October 8, 2007
A couple (man and woman) (not necessarily married to each other) had evidently spoken of taking people to another planet. People were excited and wanted to go so they put us in some kind of vehicle. We were not strapped in very tightly, which I though was strange. If you were leaving the earth for another planet more would be done to secure the passengers. There seemed to be some immediate difficulty, (I felt a little faint or lightheaded like something had happened very fast) and they hurriedly undid what was like seat belt and told us that “we’re here”. I immediately knew (but not from anything that they actually did or said) that we actually had not gone to another planet in that short time and that in fact the people were cannibals. They were tricking people into going to the new and exciting planet, but were actually bringing in a harvest of people for food. We had gone someplace in that short amount of time because I saw a couple of people very thin and trance-like and I tried to warn them, but they only replied “Baaa, baaa”. I tried to warn everyone on the trip with me and they believed me immediately, no questions asked. I can’t remember anything else.
When I woke up right after the dream, I asked the Lord over and over again what these people did or said to give themselves away and how I knew they were tricking us. My only feeling was “discernment”. I knew because of the Spirit of Discernment.
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We are all praying for Todd's Correction, Restoration and the Healing of His Marriage.
Shalom & Blessings
Elder Reg
At August 31, 2008 5:00 AM ,
Anonymous said...
the crowds are not ıntımıdatıng. they want truth. ıts the preachers who are wolves.
At August 31, 2008 5:46 AM ,
Anonymous said...
I agree with what someone said earlier, that the Toronto/Vineyard stream is dirty. I had that suspicion as well. It is not a coincidence we are seeing in this particular Charismatic/Prophetic/Apostolic circle and the players involved, who have interconnected and incestuous relationships, have their roots in Toronto/Vineyard. That is a dirty and polluted river that God is cleaning up!
Since I am an attorney who has governmental authority in the natural as well as in the Kingdom of God, I will speak forth the Word of God on this issue in order to bring a cleansing to Body of Christ and hasten the work of the Lord. Micah 3:7-8 states, “So the seers shall be ashamed (all Lakeland players who did not discern); and the diviners abashed (those who practice doctrines of demons); indeed they shall all cover their lips (they shall all be SILENCED – Titus 1:11); for there is no answer from God (God is not speaking to them). But truly I am full of power by the Spirit of the Lord, and of JUSTICE and might, to DECLARE to Jacob his transgression and to Israel his sin.”
For Wagner, Pierce, Arnott, Sheets, and all of those who are now “tagged” with this false anointing and now their names are written on God’s hit list, you should beware if you refuse to REPENT. “Why has this people slidden back, Jerusalem, in a perpetual backsliding? They hold fast to deceit, they refuse to return. I listened and heard, but they do not speak aright. No man repented of HIS wickedness, saying, ‘What have I done?’ … But My people do not know the judgment of the Lord.” (Jer. 8:5-8). For too long you have led My precious sheep astray and now I say, ENOUGH!!! “Thus says the Lord God: ‘None of My words will be postponed anymore, but the words which I speak will be done.” (Ez.12:18). “Therefore their way shall be to them like slippery ways; in the darkness they shall be driven on and fall in them: For I will bring disaster on them – the year of their punishment.” (Jer. 23:12). “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.” (Matt. 15 13-14). “The anger of the Lord will not turn back until He has executed and performed the thoughts of His heart. IN THE LATTER DAYS YOU WILL UNDERSTAND IT PERFECTLY.” (Jer. 23:20).
Now that the gavel has been struck in the courtroom of heaven, in the name of Jesus, with the authority given to me, I decree and declare, LET THE JUDGMENTS BEGIN!!!
At August 31, 2008 7:29 AM ,
Anonymous said...
This is a quote from Dr. David Yonggi Cho's book "The Fourth Dimension": "In America ministers do not have this kind of problem, but in the Orient I have real trouble in preaching about the miraculous power of God, for in Buddhism monks also have performed fantastic miracles. ... In Korea many people involved in yoga are healing the sick by yoga meditation. When attending meetings of the Japanese Sokagakkai, many are healed - some of stomach ulcers, the deaf and dumb hearing and speaking, and the blind seeing. So naturally we Christians, especially Pentecostal Christins, have real difficulty in explaining these occurrences."
This is for those who still cannot see the Lakeland-cesspool for what it is, by using the excuse of "healings" as proof that God was in it. With everything that we know about Lakeland now, let's go beyond the "lying signs and wonders" and understand that we must test everything by the Word of God, and the Word of God only.
At August 31, 2008 8:13 AM ,
Anonymous said...
Are Charisma Magazine part of the solution or part of the problem?
Think about it: Rick Joyner and his extra-Biblical revelation; the Word-Faith people the magazine has not challenged over the years; the 'manifest sons of God' teaching, which is profoundly heretical; the extra-Biblical teachings on angels, in books which the magazine advertises even as Lee Grady says to be cautious about this; Bob Jones's prophecies (notably with and for John Wimber) which never came true ....
My point is that men like Dutch Sheets are responding in the right spirit, when they invoke discipline, but they forget that they are promoting a Christian culture which guarantees that these things will happen, because the foundations of the work are rotten.
I am glad this business never took root in the UK, where I am writing from. I am of no real account in this matter - I'm not even married - but enough is enough. Ross in the UK
At August 31, 2008 1:52 PM ,
Gerrick said...
I reckon that "anonymous" really means "sinless stone thrower." What an incredible bunch of graceless hypocrites - proof-texting Pharisees! It looks like a Phrantic Pharisaical Pheeding Phrenzy to me.
At August 31, 2008 3:40 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Gerrick, I am only "anonymous" because that's how the blogger.com software works. To complain about what people on this board are saying, is simply shooting the messenger because of their message. You're missing the point: a lot went wrong at Lakeland that shouldn't have. What you call a feeding frenzy wouldn't have happened if only a little discernment had been exercised.
As for being described as a Pharisee, you haven't seen anything until you've seen the Fundamentalists' response to this mess. It's a lot more severe than anything said on this thread.
At August 31, 2008 3:44 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Sorry, the thread above was from Ross in the UK - am not wanting to be anonymous.
At August 31, 2008 11:13 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow. "Come now, and let us reason together," Says the LORD, "Though your sins are like scarlet, They shall be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They shall be as wool. If you are willing and obedient, You shall eat the good of the land; But if you refuse and rebel, You shall be devoured by the sword"; For the mouth of the LORD has spoken. Isaiah 1:17-20
Gerrick- The bible that Todd Bentley and his supporters doesn't read and practice clearly tells all Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.
1TM 5:20 Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear.
Todd Bentley and all those false leaders who commissioned him and sinned are to be rebuked in the presence of all and they are to be told to repent or face the judgments of God for their lies, deceptions, stealing and use of the sheep~
Dan
At September 1, 2008 4:33 AM ,
Peter Laman said...
It's the emperor's clothes tale indeed. The root problem is the emperor's pride that makes him want to display his very special clothes.
What's been bothering me for years in the charismatic movement - which BTW I know very well, being raised in a pentecostal church - is the loss of preaching the cross.
How does a Christian grow? The bible says, by feeding on the Word, by crucifying the flesh, by having less of self and more of God.
Many charismatics preachers say, by striving for 'touches of God', by seeking success, and so on.
The message has become man-centered in stead of Christ-centered. If I want to be used of God, what I need to do is not seek some 'touch' in a meeting somewhere. Instead, I must crucify the flesh, give up my own interests and let God, through His Spirit, reign inside of me. All I need to be is a willing vessel to the Lord. That requires humility and not the desire to display my 'beautiful spiritual clothing', which in the end might appear just nakedness.
At September 1, 2008 1:05 PM ,
Anonymous said...
For the first time in my life I am ashamed to be called a christian.Not because of todd bentley(at least his sins are upfront and obvious) but because of the self-righteous people who call themselves "christians" that have been responding to this whole sinful mess. Remember the story in the bible of the two men in the temple-one a vile sinner, the other a "perfect" (in man's eyes anyway)"christian". Jesus said the self-righteous man went away condemned.Brothers and sisters let's not let the enemy get any glory in this matter! The bible says he comes to steal, kill, and destroy. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Signs, wonders, and miracles are all mentioned in the Bible as occuring in the last days. God did many wonderful things at Lakeland. Don't let the devil steal any of God's glory! Also I dare say that many of the people judging TB are gluttons, gossips, unforgiving,etc. All of the blogs from the "I told you so " bunch reek of PRIDE- one of the seven deadly sins that God hates the most. Could it be that God allowed this all to happen so His light would be shown in our own hearts to expose our proud, judgemental, self-righteous spirits? It also bothers me how many people are condemning tattoos.You can't pick and choose which old testament laws you are going to follow. For example: the law says we are not to work on Saturdays, eat pork and shellfish,charge interest when we lend money,and to relieve everyone of their debts every forty years. Should we remove everyone from their ministry who does not obey these laws also? Just asking. I myself would never get a tattoo but I've seen some beautiful ones of Jesus that are really works of art. I guess what I'm saying is that with a lost and dying world out there maybe we need to choose our battles more carefully. And with all the talk about discernment (which I agree we need)discern this: "Beloved, let us love one another. For love is of God and everyone who loveth is born of God and knoweth God.He that loveth not, knoweth not God for God is love." In no way am I saying that Todd should not be held accountable for what he did. He definately should be and is. It just grieves my heart the way so many so-called "christians", especially those who are well known and supported TB in the beginning, are now hollering,"Crucify him!" Iam encouraged however by the handful of letters (such as Joseph's and Dr. Michael's) that are filled with love. Praise God for the remnant. "Many are called but few are chosen!"
At September 1, 2008 1:45 PM ,
Anonymous said...
The truth of the matter is Todd Bentley is learning the reality of the judgment of God upon adulterers like Todd"
Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge. Hebrews 13:4
At September 1, 2008 6:10 PM ,
Radiant Worship said...
This post has been removed by the author.
At September 1, 2008 6:12 PM ,
Radiant Worship said...
Thanks Stephen! Well said! We need "accurate prophetic!" My favorite line! I've been around the prophetic movement for years and am pained, yet thankful for the positive fruit that will come from this situation! I know the church will be holy and mature! And, it will mature through love! Blessings - Richy
At September 2, 2008 9:12 AM ,
The Unknown Preacher said...
Todd needs more than preachers if he is to be seriously helped.
He also needs professional medical attention.
His 'spiritual' visions may be signs of a delusional disorder.
This is not something to ignore.
At September 2, 2008 9:21 AM ,
Anonymous said...
I live in East Texas, where we are experiencing much needed rain, the remnants of a Hurricane that brought fear and destruction to many only a few hundred miles away.
I attended the Florida Hurricane lead by Todd Bentley, where I was offended by the music, horrified by his clothing, mistreated by some of the "staff", and in spite of it all, received a personal healing. I am approaching age 65, have been in the charismatic movement since 1978, and feel I have "seen it all". Today, I am still benefiting from the rain that fell on me from those storm clouds. Todd's manner on stage wasn't scriptural, the long hair wasn't scriptual, many manifestations weren't holy, and now it has all collapsed into a mess. What has continued to be important is, that inspite of it all, God was there. I was healed, and my faith remains because I did not look out, but up at my Source..........ben
At September 2, 2008 10:22 AM ,
Anonymous said...
The problem is that actually the emperor did have clothes on. There were far too many healings, lives changed and pastors and churches touched to use that analogy. A better one may be that the emperor's pants were unzipped or his trousers were falling down, but there were clothes on him none the less. The problem we're left with is how to process all of this in the context of God moving in spite of all the things going on that either irritated us, or even in the midst of sin.
Some options are to say that miracles mean nothing, when in the U.S. church we all know how seldom miracles happen. If they are so meaningless then why are they so hard to come by? Or we could say that this was all just a work of the enemy from start to finish, but if that were so then the enemy is dumber than we thought, leaving in his wake rejuvenated pastors and healed bodies, not to mention teams of Christians going out daily into the Lakeland area sharing the gospel.
Maybe Todd Bentley had one thing going for him, which may come as a shock to many, and that is that one the one hand he had a great faith in God, and not only that, but that God could and would move through him. When the resulting eruption from hell came in response, he fell, and evidently did so badly.
I used to get mad and hurt when ministers fell, but then I realized that as people move up the ladder in ministry, not the political one, but the ladder of effectiveness, the demons they face get bigger and better. Every weakness is exploited and every hound of discouragement and even depression is unleashed. Unfortunately for Todd and the rest of us, he couldn't handle it. What I now feel for these guys is compassion and sympathy, knowing they're battling some demons I've never faced, nor probably ever will, and though I would hope to win that battle, I'll never know till I face it. And if I ever did fight and lose that battle, God please protect me from Your church.
I don't mean this to excuse them, because there is far too much of it, but I'm surprised there are not more that do fall. The fact that there is not more failings should be a testament to us all of the power of the gospel, and our reaction to those who do fall should be a testament to the world of the power of the love of God, but unfortunately we're not quite there yet.
So let's help the guy zip up his pants, or pull up his trousers, and then let's go on.
At September 2, 2008 11:03 AM ,
Anonymous said...
IN regards to Todd Bentley...quick comment - I am praying for him and his family. NOW on to the REAL issue. I did NOT attend the Lakeland Revival...and other than a blip of it, I did not watch it either. However, the thing that grieved me more than anything was the behavior of other Christians who became vocal critics of the revival because of limitations that they put on what could be God and what could not. They informed me that it was not of God because of the creative miracles that were occurring...yet out of the other side of their mouth they were saying that there weren't any documented miracles because the secular press said so!
What I learned was this...Jesus said these and GREATER works will you do...but yet I have talked with numerous people who have put God in a box. Apparently God is only allowed to do things that don't stretch our ability to be WOWED. It is okay if God heals someones cancer but not okay if they receive a gold tooth. It is okay if someone's marriage is healed, but not okay if gold dust appears. What will a wonder (as in signs and wonders) be? Will we disallow it because we have not seen it before or because it is too different? The final heartbreak for me is seen in the behaviour of the critics as they all openly rejoiced over Todd Bentleys moral failure and immediately began writing their articles and producing sermons to share from the pulpit. Aha..I told you so! NA NA! Should have listened to me. How sad is that. I just hope that when the fires of revival hit, the water of disapproval won't put them out.
At September 2, 2008 9:33 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Does anyone that went to the Lakeland Revival have any documented proof that the couple that came there from another country, and received a gold tooth in their mouths, in the same exact position? It was shown on television with a camera up close. I would venture to say that the gold tooth that the couple had possibly was already there and it was made to look like it had
miraculously appeared.
Also, regarding the "gold Dust". Any magician has the ability to make gold dust suddenly appear out of nowhere and sprinkled on people. That is the "Tinkerbell Effect".
Wake up, people! You have been had!
In that same week that those 2 episodes occurred, TB announced they had collected the most money in that one service ever. He bragged about it on TV. Prior to those 2 episodes, their offering collections were very low; certainly not what they had expected.
Just who did get those offerings?
Has anyone else thought to ask that question? Oh, sure it was supposed to go to Fresh Fire Ministries; but who are the leaders of that ministry?
Did any of that money go to help feed and clothe the hungry and the homeless? Does anyone care?
A previous writer wrote about having seen evidence of witches and warlocks activities. Do you think that maybe they were there for a reason? They have the ability to put curses and deceitfulness upon people and that is also how they get their "salary" so to speak.
So, I say, "Show me the money."
Has anyone in leadership even asked for a financial accounting?
Think about this before you fall into another rigged revival.
That goes for you too, Stephen Strader! You started this whole mess.
At September 3, 2008 5:27 AM ,
Anonymous said...
I think the above Pharisee accusation was directed toward me - the attorney. I have been very stunned by the lack of biblical understanding and application that has taken place throughout this whole debacle. From the very beginning, if Todd’s angel worship and astral travel were compared to the word of God, the Body of Christ would not be hemorrhaging at this time. And it is the False Prophets and False Apostles who are to blame and should be held accountable, not Todd Bentley. He is just a spawn of their false teachings and proof of who they are. Please go back and read the entire chapters of the quotes that I used from Micah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Matthew and Titus. The False Prophets and False Apostles in this situation have been exposed by and through the word of God. The word of the Lord has gone forth and there is no turning back on His wrath if there is not true repentance.
For God so love the world that He sent His only begotten Son to die on the cross. And once Jesus died and went into the belly of hell, he actually enlarged hell making room for those that despite His love would be rebellious. In the natural as well as the Kingdom of God, it is important that Justice and Judgment go forward. Otherwise, rebellious renegades would eventually destroy everything and everybody in their way if there is no stopping them. Remember, God who is love is also Righteous and Holy. My Bible says that He banished His chosen ones from the land He promised them because of their rebellion, and He told them beforehand that they would be a hissing in every nation that they were sent. The Body of Christ has been allowed to grow up unhindered (wheat and tares) for this 2000-year period. We have never experienced the chastening of the Lord the Bible talks about in Hebrews. These are the last days, and everything in the Bible spoken by the prophets will be fulfilled. (Acts 3).
And as far as the greater works of Jesus that we are supposed to do, I pray to God that it is not just gold dust and feathers. I pray to God that when His power really does show up like He has promised, that instead of casting out demons in people we will rock principalities and powers over entire cities and nations and eyes will be opened to see Jesus high and lifted up. I don’t believe our little manmade meetings where witches and warlocks are comfortable and actually practicing their witchcraft right in front of everyone counts as a great move of God.
The ungodly alliance at the center of the mess must be silenced!!! I’ve done a little research and this is what I’ve found: William Branham, the grandfather of the ungodly alliance, died in shame a homosexual alcoholic. He was accused of being an occultist and tormented by demons. In 2005, Paul Cain, their head prophet admitted that he was a homosexual alcoholic. Rick Joyner, Mike Bickle and Jack Deere issued a statement: “We apologize to the body of Christ for our lack of discernment….” In 2006 Peter Wagner’s pastor and co-founder of the World Prayer Network, Ted Haggard, admitted his homosexuality and drug use. So, you see, in 2008 Todd Bentley should not be a surprise to us who are looking at this very sick, ungodly alliance including Wagner, Sheets, Pierce and others with their roots in Toronto/Vineyard. And I expect to see more on God’s hit list be exposed and then silenced if they don’t repent and if they don’t get rid of the doctrines of demons that they either teach or allow their cronies to teach without challenging them.
At September 3, 2008 11:58 AM ,
anointedma said...
My heart is heavy as I've read every one of these postings.How can the body of Christ be so merciless?Think back to when you were only 10 years old in Christ,and what had been accomplished for the Kingdom of God ,in Jesus' name ,through you're life? Baby believers are usually "on fire"and will do whatever the Father asks them to do,because of their child like faith,miraculous things happen....I was born again and Spirit filled in 1969.I started out in just this manner,but the "Hierarchy of the Church" informed me that only those in ministry were allowed to pray,prophecy,lay hands on the sick,etc.;and I slowly became "a normal believer":impotent,and ineffectual!I'm not like that anymore.The Lord has this "child" back fully yielded to His voice.May God help us to run,step for step, with the Spirit of God.
Yes brother Todd went a little off kilter,but don't we all?The only difference between him and us is the fact that his "sin" has been shouted from the roof tops,and ours is still hidden from all but the Lord.For those who would cast the first stone,remember that with the same measure that you measure out ,it shall come back unto your bosom;blessing or evil.."Little children....This is My commandment,that ye love one another,as I have loved you.Greater love hath no man than this,that a man lay down his life for his friends.Ye are My friends,if ye do whatsoever I command you...These things I command you that ye love one another...John 15:12--14,17
Todd,Shonah,body of Christ,I'm choosing to bless and not curse you..May the name of Jesus be exalted...MA
At September 3, 2008 1:12 PM ,
brad said...
I find this article less condemning than prior ones. I also have and continue to support Todd in this time.
I had a person express concerns regarding some of the goofy things that people focused on and allegedly manifested in these meetings, i.e. gold fillings etc. My response was that unfortunatelt whether or not these things truly manifested the shame was that we could enter into the presence of God and focus on such immature things.
I then that evening saw Todd state that there would be gold fillings and I grieved.
Did God give gold fillings? I have no idea but outside of those adolescent areas of focus at times by the body of christ, I in experiencing the outpouring truly experienceed the presence of God in measure.
I then asked God this question, "Why would Todd focus on stupid things like that?"
I believe I was given an answer...To frustrate religious spirits. I responded to God, "well its working."
There were alot of opportunities with the bam bam and like to frustrate religion, and unfortunately to cause an unhealthy focus sometimes on trivial matters, when the focus should have been more on what God, Jesus, was doing in peoples lives.
Sad but true, but are those goofy little things really going to shape or dismantle history or Jesus and the body of Christ? We better all be ready to gather the good out of our times in differing ministries in spite of the unfortunate moments where people get goofy, because its gonna happen.
The safest church out there has and will have moments where they operate at times outside of the will of God for that moment. Anybody that believes different is a fool. We all fall short in every area of our lives at times, even in our interpretation and impartation. Sad but true.
There were legitemate moments in the outpouring, and they unfortunately, but fortunately caused Todd and Shonnas sin to be exposed. Their seperation is less than the perfect will of God and there are two people involved not just one. This needs to come to a close, mostly just for the Bentleys.
Question...
Could it be that in spite of the fact that God knew this exposure was coming could it be that God used Todd because of his ability to believe in ways that many others cannot or will not? The bible says, let me reiterate Jesus stated himself that a camp divided against itself makes no business sense. So if people were legitemately healed should that not be more of the focus than all the "I told you so's," or the accusations that Todd is of the devil.
Todd loves Jesus. Though I do not know the Bentleys, his love for Jesus is real and visible. So is the devil the cause for the healings in Lakeland or the author and encourager of the sin and struggle in Todd and you or me?
Pretty simple math, "elementary my dear watson" to quote a cliche.
I wish to close but in doing so I am going to share this...
I went to Lakeland and to be honest was a little let down but also strengthened in these facts...
Tha annointing was real. but it was to leave there not be harnessed or exploited there. Please let me explain....
When I was worshiping looking towards the altar I experienced the equivalent of the worship of a good spirit filled service, nothing more.
But when I would turn and look at the people and their hunger I would experience the annointing so heavy that I could barely stand. So I turned back to the altar and once again it was good but not overly weighty. So I turned around towards the crowd and again it increased in a very large measure.
This prompted a dialogue between me and the Holy Spirit in which I asked, "Are you telling me that this annointing was meant to leave here?" My Whole body went through the "goose bumps and tingles" in a way that I have never experienced before which caused me to further my "vetting" of what I believed I had been told. Much like Gideon I took God through a confirmation process, which He obliged in allowing me time to decide on the validity of what I thought I had heard; and in my opinion confirmed what I believed I had heard.
Also the verbage in the bible teachings were in many instances in exact wording as we have here in Seattle been wording and experiencing the move of God inside us and our ministries for years. This solidified that we as the body need to focus less on these big gatherings as confirmation and allow them to be what they are in my opinion.
More for the newer Christian than for people than have been around longer.
I do not mean that they are to be discredited, just that they have their place and then we as the local leaders in our region get to do our best to help our congregations navigate and discern the meat from unnecessary or unwise things taught. Once again my opinion is that we all fall short.
The angels....a little weird at times, and maybe some of it is definately not truly from heaven. But I find angels all through the bible communicating for God to man. So once again discernment not automatic discreditment. Some of Todds experiences may very well have been legitemate and some may have been lies of the enemy.
Our job is to gather the annointing and the strengths from what Jesus truly did and intends to do through this outpouring. To pray people through any unhealthy attachments or baggage, and to remember to daily lift up Todd and Shonna and their willingness to remain teachable and guidable throughout their lives and this rough state that their home is in.
Hope this helps somebody and if you must...attack me, but if you can find the strength to abstain then please abstain.
Brad Herman
Altared Ministries
At September 3, 2008 2:06 PM ,
Anonymous said...
How can anybody support a liar, adulterer, drunk, and thief like Todd Bentley unless they themselves are not Christians? For true Christians have the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth and the mind of Christ!
Robert Ricciardelli | 28/08/08
We are praying for Todd, but those who were touched had nothing to do with Todd. We have been journalists on this from the beginning and have interviewed dozens, including staff members and former Fresh Fire staff members. Todd has been an alcoholic for several years, he has had two affairs and wants to marry the current one. He came into Lakeland already in his affair and had been living in a sinful situation for several years. God will not tolerate this, and shame on those who covered this up. This will all be coming out and I hope Todd finally gets people around him that will help him rather than use his platform. If Todd humbles himself and repents, God will use him… That is our prayer….
http://www.revivalblog.com/why-i-know-that-todd-bentleys-ministry-will-be-restored/
Imagine that Todd has been an alcoholic and adulterer for years and the so called false Apostles and Prophets were not told by God about it? Some thing is really wrong with the bunch who supported and support Todd Bentley
Dr. Pat Holliday wrote:
The Word of God tells us to know those that labor among us. We are to know their character and lifestyles. Todd Bentley preached many false doctrines and did many bizarre things in Lakeland. Many were blinded to his insane ministry. WE NOW KNOW FOR 100% CERTAIN that Todd was living with another woman, drunk most nights, and any sincere Bible knowledge should have deeply concerned people about his heretical doctrines. However, when he confessed his affair with another woman and applied for divorce, he was rejected by all those who endorsed him and he became exposed as a liar. Church leadership rejected his ministry and called him to repentance. Some his peers say that they are ministering to him now and claim that he has repented but we have not heard a word from his lips. Mostly the entire churches AROUND THE world have rejected Bentley because of his sinful lifestyle of womanizing and drinking and rightly so. Pat Holliday http://www.scribd.com/doc/5200686/TODD-BENTLEY-MATTHEW-STEPHENS-Stephen-Bening-False-PROPHETS-ASK-GOD-TO-KILL-PAT-HOLLIDAY-
At September 3, 2008 2:17 PM ,
Anonymous said...
As a former Southern Baptist (no gifts of the Spirit, please, and definitely no healing or other miracles!) I have to say that in the 70s the biggest problem in the Southern Baptist churches was pastors running off with the deacons (or someone elses) wife, so Charasmatics don't have a corner on adulterous pastors. Aren't we a pathetic witness to the world? We have child molestation, adultery, fornication, divorces, fake miracles and healings, homosexuality, money grubbing, and who knows what else. Right now, Todd Bentley is taking the brunt of our ire, but many others have been doing it for years.
We now accept divorces and both parties continuing in pastoring. I was shocked to learn of a very well known pastor in TX who was messing around while pastoring a church. He then left his wife and children for the younger woman and fathered children by her. Never a mention of his other children. Then these people preach to the congregation about those very sins they themselves are guilty of.
I went to the Lakeland Revival in July to see for myself. Actually, it looked better on TV. It was such a blessing to worship with so many others. Strangely, my husband and I cannot remember a word Todd said - hmmmm. Also, I would get tired and we went back to the hotel before the laying on of hands by Todd - another blessing. I do recall the healings and the joy on the faces of those who were healed; and that of those who were worshipping the Most High God. You cannot buy that kind of happiness in a cold and heartless world - the love of God shone through on the faces of His children.
At September 3, 2008 6:58 PM ,
Gerrick said...
Is there ANY evidence to support ANY of these slanderous ALLEGATIONS below? Are there named witnesses? Are there photgraphs? Is ANY of this stinking "journalistic" TRIPE true, provably so? If so, then let's see the evidence, let's name names, dates, and places, like real journalists do:
How can anybody support a liar, adulterer, drunk, and thief like Todd Bentley unless they themselves are not Christians? For true Christians have the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth and the mind of Christ!
Robert Ricciardelli | 28/08/08
We are praying for Todd, but those who were touched had nothing to do with Todd. We have been journalists on this from the beginning and have interviewed dozens, including staff members and former Fresh Fire staff members. Todd has been an alcoholic for several years, he has had two affairs and wants to marry the current one. He came into Lakeland already in his affair and had been living in a sinful situation for several years. God will not tolerate this, and shame on those who covered this up. This will all be coming out and I hope Todd finally gets people around him that will help him rather than use his platform. If Todd humbles himself and repents, God will use him… That is our prayer….
http://www.revivalblog.com/why-i-know-that-todd-bentleys-ministry-will-be-restored/
Imagine that Todd has been an alcoholic and adulterer for years and the so called false Apostles and Prophets were not told by God about it? Some thing is really wrong with the bunch who supported and support Todd Bentley
Dr. Pat Holliday wrote:
The Word of God tells us to know those that labor among us. We are to know their character and lifestyles. Todd Bentley preached many false doctrines and did many bizarre things in Lakeland. Many were blinded to his insane ministry. WE NOW KNOW FOR 100% CERTAIN that Todd was living with another woman, drunk most nights, and any sincere Bible knowledge should have deeply concerned people about his heretical doctrines. However, when he confessed his affair with another woman and applied for divorce, he was rejected by all those who endorsed him and he became exposed as a liar. Church leadership rejected his ministry and called him to repentance. Some his peers say that they are ministering to him now and claim that he has repented but we have not heard a word from his lips. Mostly the entire churches AROUND THE world have rejected Bentley because of his sinful lifestyle of womanizing and drinking and rightly so. Pat Holliday http://www.scribd.com/doc/5200686/TODD-BENTLEY-MATTHEW-STEPHENS-Stephen-Bening-False-PROPHETS-ASK-GOD-TO-KILL-PAT-HOLLIDAY-
September 3, 2008 2:06 PM
ates, places, like jornalists do.
At September 4, 2008 2:09 AM ,
Anonymous said...
Gerrick said... Is there ANY evidence to support ANY of these slanderous ALLEGATIONS below?
Gerrick grown up and accept your defeat and dismay like a real man for Fresh Fire Ministries booted Todd Bentley out and on August 15th the board of directors of Bentley’s Fresh Fire Ministries (FFM) said there was an “unhealthy relationship on an emotional level with a female member of his staff.”
We don't need details when Todd's own board admitted something was drastically wrong with Todd Bentley who is the culprit and filed for divorce from his wife because he wants the other woman.
Stop whining and complaining and fact the fact that dude is immoral and insane
At September 4, 2008 3:25 AM ,
Anonymous said...
This is a very good article with many great points.
You ask why leaders didn't speak up before Todd's problems surfaced. I think many leaders did speak up but people (and many other leaders) weren't listening. I know one great article and message by Pastor David Cannistraci on June 1st. I also spoke to my church with the same cautions and posted an article on our website. One of my church members who had just returned from Lakeland called me the next day and told me she realized something was very wrong there.
Pastor Cannistraci's message wasn't against Todd but clearly called the Body of Christ to test everything - holding onto what is good and rejecting what is bad.
The Body of Christ needs to open it's ear and hear when people lovingly share their concerns.
We also need to realize supernatural workings don't mean God is validating a person. Each person must be evaluated by the standards of God's Word and by the Christ-like character in their lives, not by the apparent supernatural workings in their ministry.
At September 4, 2008 5:07 AM ,
Anonymous said...
I could be mistaken, but I don't believe anyone has spoken of how this looks to the world and our witness of Christ. God's name has been maligned in the Lakeland fiasco. Our job is to help save a dying world that is going to hell by lifting up the name of Jesus, and not have meeting after meeting where we feel good and get gold teeth. Even the appearance of evil takes us off course. I would ask, how many in the world were totally turned off by this situation? How many in the world - literally, the world through God TV - have looked at this situation as proof positive that those Christians are a bunch of kooks, especially those charismatics who say they hear from God? There are those in the world with more discernment than the leaders in the church. What an embarrassment! Shame on us for forgetting our true job as Christians - the Great Commission!!!
At September 4, 2008 7:37 AM ,
Lisa M said...
I paid attention to what everyone was saying on both sides of the fence. I saw things from both sides that I thought were wrong. I can't see writing someone off as not of God because he has tattoos and piercings or is getting new tattoos and piercings. Jesus said it wasn't what went into a man that made him unclean, it is what comes out of a man.
And let me tell you something, I heard things come out of the 'mouths' (or pens) of both sides of the fence and I can think of quite a few people who need to stand before God's Holy Throne and repent with a genuine heart!
On the other side, I think it is nothing more than manipulation when you tell someone that they will lose their healing if they dare to think that there is anything 'wrong' with the minister that 'caused' the healing!
Jesus told us to test the spirits, to not do so, would be disobedient to His command.
We are told that in the last days there would be false prophets, but let's not go on witch hunts to find thenm either!
At September 4, 2008 8:39 AM ,
bellthorpe said...
Mr. Strang, I found your use of Charisma as a podium for your personal political endorsement offensive. Do you think Christians so stupid that they cannot examine the party platforms and decide for themselves?
At September 6, 2008 5:04 AM ,
Anonymous said...
The self made proud and arrogant leaders or "Spiritual Fathers" who supported Revivalist Todd Bentley had not brains! They ignored the fact that God is very passionate opinionated unpredictable volatile and a God of wrath who made a whip and drove money changers from the house of God and wanted to kill Moses because the latter didn’t listen to him!
God hates money changers like Todd and the false Apostles and Prophets and He is the one who is exposing and demoting them and not the devil!
God’s character is not one of passivity or silence or being demure but he is depicted as a man of war who cast the horse and rider into the sea and is the judge of all the earth who defended his friend Moses and destroyed Korah and all his supporters including prominent men of renown as well as their families. Read Exodus 14, 15 and Numbers 16 as well as Revelation 19 to see Jesus as He truly is like today:
RV 19:11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
19:15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 19:16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
RV 21:8 "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
Yes the leaders and Spiritual Fathers involved in the Lakeland are not only lovers of money and selfish and greedy they are cowards, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters and liars who shall have their part in hell as the judgment of God, not his blessings, that has fallen upon them with the speedy downfall and demise of Todd Bentley the unrepentant one and the so called “Fathers” !
Instead of humbling themselves and admitting that they were too hasty in commissioning this fool and that it was all wrong they are distance themselves, throwing flack to keep the dumb sheep off balanced and re-writing history of what actually happened. But they forgot that others are not stupid or blind like they are!
At September 6, 2008 4:25 PM ,
Reg said...
Anonymous--How true we are not stupid or blind but we cannot correct with a cruel vengeful spirit –but with one willing to admonish and then restore our brothers.
I agree with your statement below except for calling him a fool and sending them all to hell. Only God can call someone a fool and He warns us not to do that, and only God knows who is going to Hell.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You said:
Instead of humbling themselves and admitting that they were too hasty in commissioning this fool and that it was all wrong they are distance themselves, throwing flack to keep the dumb sheep off balanced and re-writing history of what actually happened. But they forgot that others are not stupid or blind like they are!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But you are dead wrong to condemn them to Hell.
God is merely doing what He said He would do – and that is Shaking everything that can be Shaken and that Judgment begins in the House of God. He is just cleaning House.
God is both Merciful and Compassionate and only when no one listens will He shows His Wrath.
But we all need to weed out the Pride in our own life, if not God WILL --as we have seen.
When you seek the good of others, you find God’s favor (ratzon), but when you search for evil in others, the very evil you find becomes your own.
I think the key word here is "Search for" and as a Charismatic Christian I believe in all the Gifts of the Spirit--- and one of them is called discerning of spirits.
We call it getting a check in the Spirit. We don’t search for it --it just comes.
All Christians are subject to deception by evil spirits. I want only the best for Todd and those Apostles around Him and that best is to warn Him and those Apostles when they are unbiblical. I would also want someone to warn me also in the same situation.
The Lord led me it investigate Todd’s healing angel Emma. This same angel deceived William Branham and Paul Cain and their lives ended in great deception. We only say these things to warn Todd not to be deceived. Todd is not our enemy --Satan is. If someone had warned Branham and Cain it would have saved them a lot of pain and heartache. If we forget History--We are doomed to repeat it. Please pray for Todd Bentley as he is now considering divorce witch is all part of the deceiving Angel Emma. Tough love means we love our brothers too much to let them be deceived. Todd needs our prayers now more than ever. There were some healings at Lakeland in response to the peoples worship and faith. There were also unclean spirits being manifested thru Todd and past on to others.
Take heed to this statement by Derek Prince:
What is the answer to mixture? Truth! The pure, undiluted truth of God's Word!
It happened once in the U.S.A. that I was the only witness to an accident in the street outside our home. As a result, I was required to testify in court.
Before I gave my testimony, I was required to affirm that I would speak the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
That was the standard set by a secular court. How much more should we, as Christians, take our stand for the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth! ----Derek Prince
This article is by By Scott Holtz
“In 1989, Dalit and I pleaded and warned the leaders of a local Messianic congregation we attended and were married in to not go out to Kansas City (Mike Bickle’s church) and have a well known “prophet” named Paul Cain prophesy and lay hands on them. God had shown us that this minister Paul Cain was a homosexual and was operating in something which he called “the mantle of the late William Branham”. The leaders of our congregation told us to be quiet and not spread our opinions to the other members because they considered themselves more spiritually in tune with what God is saying than Dalit and I.
Being discouraged but still not willing to be quiet with this strong warning rolling on the inside of me about Paul Cain, God arranged a few days later for us to have a spontaneous meeting with the late Derek Prince. In this small and intimate meetings, we had the chance to share some of our prophetic concerns with Derek and he wisely told us a testimony of one of his best friends named Earn Baxter who traveled many years with William Branham. Before Earn had passed on into the glory realm, he told Derek Prince that at the end of William Branham’s ministry there was a strange thing happening. Branham had the great ability to operate in a very accurate word of knowledge from God but also at times seemed to operate in a spirit of divination! Derek Prince then went on as a wise sage to warn us as young bucks to have nothing to do with any in so called “prophetic” ministry who say they have the mantle of William Branham transferred on upon them!!!! No matter how many signs and wonders are evident!!!!”
By Scott Holtz
Todd Bentley claims the mantle of William Branham
At September 6, 2008 5:40 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Reg1 My brothers don't rob, rape or use the sheep. It's the sons of hell whose father is the devil who do that!
The sons of Eli by their act in the house of God as depicted in 1 Samuel 2 condemned themselves to hell! And so did Todd Bentley who was for the last years an unrepentant liar, thief and sexual deviant! As a result Todd's friends and supporters share in His sin because they didn't and don't want to know or accept the truth about him.
Speaking of Scott Holtz, you will admit that Scott had the sense to get out from the false and deceived ones and and so should everyone from the Lakeland Revival and all the false arrogant and proud leaders who supported it!
At September 6, 2008 6:06 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Ephesians 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 5:7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. 5:8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 5:9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 5:10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 5:12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret. 5:13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light. 5:14 Therefore He says: "Awake, you who sleep, Arise from the dead, And Christ will give you light."
Yes we are seeing the wrath of God coming upon the sons of disobedience including Todd Bentley and false apostle and prophets who have been exposed by the light!
At September 7, 2008 3:36 AM ,
Anonymous said...
he Montreal Gazette reported Fallen minister B.C. evangelist caught cheating on his wife takes time out from his unorthodox faith healing
And what a performance it was: For the past few months, Bentley, a 32-year-old former drug addict from the west coast, was the hottest thing going on the global televangelist circuit. A hog-riding faith healer with a devil-may-care attitude.
Then he failed his flock, the old fashioned way: cheating on his wife. Bentley is taking a long time out from his ministry, for some healing and reflection.
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=3413e279-9259-432f-8d09-e4f21119e650
Read Matthew 7:15-23 and Ephesinas 5;5-16 If deception of Christians by empty words of deceivers were not possible then Jesus and Apostle Paul would not warn Christians about it or that because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience and also tells us do not be partakers with them.
And scriptures doesn’t tell us that exposing the unfruitful works of darkness which are done by the sons of disobedience is wrong bur rather children of light are to become aware of them, expose them and to have no fellowship with the perpetrators of evil, lies, deception and wickedness!
At September 7, 2008 6:28 PM ,
Reg said...
To Anonymous -- If Todd apoligises for ministering in the power of Emma and renounces all connection with evil spirits and asks God to forgive Him, will you forgive Todd.?
At September 7, 2008 7:17 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Reg - It's not my forgiveness that Todd needs but God for He dislikes those who are unrepentant liars, thieves, and sexually immoral like Todd
Open Heaven reported recently Obviously this article was written before we heard the news about Todd Bentleys troubled situation. Please continue to pray for Todd & Shannah, their children, and the Fresh Fire Ministries. Please also pray for the Revival Alliance and the other apostles that are working hard to bring restoration to the Bentley family.
Todd has more problems than just Enema. He filed for divorce from his wife and wants to be with the other woman! There can be no restoration or healing when Todd has left his first love?
Have you considered that these so-called prophets and apostles who sponsored the Lakeland revival, and ministered in it could not be real, because a real prophet would had rejected it, and real apostles should reject it. These are no "Elijahs", but mercenaries for hire. Mercenaries go for rewards as oppose to what is right in God’s eyes. Mercenaries will join whichever force pays the best in their limited sight, no matter what side in the battle. Mercenaries turn their heads aside when they see wrong, and rationalize it, or simply discount it. Mercenaries will go from one side to another depending upon what is convenient at the moment. Mercenaries don’t operate on principles, they operate according to their selfish needs. They esteem the philosophies of men over the Word of God. Such as the case with Todd Bentley and company running the healing revival in Lakeland Florida.
Notice how the super apostles and like fellows came out to do damage control, straddling both sides of the fences because of Bentley’s indiscretions. What would Paul had done in Lakeland Florida during the revival meetings seeing the new age themes and greed going on there? What would Elijah had done? I guarantee you they would not just grin and shake their heads in approval knowing and seeing all the serious error and blatant idolatry and greed there. Would they believe the new age and dominionist nonsense coming from the mouths of Todd Bentley, Patricia King, C. Peter Wagner, Bob Jones and others? Would they had turn their head and exclaim “look at the fruit” when someone attempts to pimp $1000 donations by deceit and manipulation and cast out devils in the name of “BAM”? Would they laugh and yell “fire” or whatever as people gyrate uncontrollably, bark and what not? Would they go along with falsified accounts of resurrections and healings? Would they screen people expressively for the camera? Would they deify angels with anointings and shove the Spirit of the Living God aside? These pastors, prophets, teachers and apostles approving this thing lack discernment and many are utterly false. The real will come out against it.
At September 8, 2008 10:09 AM ,
Anonymous said...
Anonymous---I agree with most of what you are saying but unlike you, I have discerned from the beginning that Todd was a Saved indivdual but was ministering under a strong delusion and a spirit of "Arrested Developement".
I am curious as to your feelings about Charismatic Christians in general.
Do you think that we all are wacky because of Todds bad behavior or have you always belived that we were wacky ?.
For the record I dont believe in titles or offices like Apostles and Prophets today but that any believer being called or gifted to function in that capacity may --when the need arises -do so. Most often functioning within the Elders in the government of a local church. You may function in that gift but that does not entitle you to a title as apostle or any of the five gifts of Eth 4.
It is a gift -not something you put on a name tag.
There are only two offices in the local church--Elder and Deacon.
Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
At September 8, 2008 4:18 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Joseph the slave could have found a reason to do all kinds of wrong things and commit adultery but he did not because he was a true brethren, a true one!
It's my point of view that Todd Bentley and his false apostolic friends and leadership are not brethren or true ones because true brethren don't lie, steal, deceive, or are sexually immoral or do things in secret.
It's the other guys such as Todd and friends who are sons of disobedience, tares, sons of hell who do these kind of things! In other words they are not even saved even if they are so called Charismatic, Pentecostal or Adulterers!
And this view is no different than the view that many in the Third Wave or Latter Rain movement hold that others who don't agree with them are not saved or brethren! Many of them are very narrow minded and bigoted especially Patrica King
Many of them have told my friends and me that we were demon possessed because we said they were demonized and were doing things that were not of God! Ironic? And their reactions to us was one of hate and malice! How sad?
Jesus told us to love God and our neighbor and He also told us MT 12:35 "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things.
But my neighbors are not evil and wicked men, wolves in sheep's clothing, liars, thieves or rapists who prey on dumb unsuspecting sheep just like the sons of Eli did. And God held Eli responsible for not constraining his sons?
So those who support evil and wicked ones like Todd and the false Apostle and Leaders are no less guilty than Eli whom God judged and killed along with his sons!
And Apostle Paul told us that we were to expose these evil and wicked men not bless them or entertain them:
ACTS 20:29 "For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 20:30 "Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.
EPH 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
5:12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret.
5:13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light.
And Jesus told us all about why Todd Bentley and his friends are hiding and will not come out in the open to repent of their sins and ways:
JN 3:19 "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 3:20 "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 3:21 "But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."
At September 9, 2008 4:32 AM ,
Anonymous said...
In H.C. Andersen's fairy tale the two deceivers claimed that only those who were intelligent enough could see the fabric, therefore no one wanted to demonstrate their stupidity by admitting to not seeing the fabric.
I enjoyed reading your posts!
Greetings from Iceland.
At September 10, 2008 1:49 AM ,
Karen said...
I'm SO thankful that Charisma has had the courage to speak a voice of reason concerning this Lakeland situation, at risk of losing many advertising dollars. I just hope it's not "too little, too late."
I've read every one of these comments, looking to see if any alude to the REAL problem that caused this debacle in Lakeland,and elsewhere. A few have begun in that direction, but I really feel that we must not dance around the issues here. There are many fine comments, coming from brothers and sisters with different spiritual giftings, and thus, different perspectives. We need to understand that at the outset. Just because someone may seem to be critical, does not mean that he/she is unloving. It probably means that they have a prophetic or exhortive gifting. Those that emphasize love and forgiveness are probably gifted in the areas of mercy or giving.
From the very beginning, when I first started hearing about TB,and the Lakeland revival, while rejoicing that so many were being genuinely touched by God, I had a strong check in my spirit. I began doing some research on him/it, giving him/it the benefit of the doubt, but became convinced that much of what TB was purporting to teach/impart was unequivocably unbliblical. (Note: I am not commenting on Todd's appearance, as distasteful as that is to me, personally.) I warned those with whom I have a voice, but several still bought into this fiasco, reasoning that it MUST be of God, since so many people had been blessed through it! (Just because God chooses to use something, doesn't automatically mean that He endorses it!) Yes, many cautioning voices were raised within the body of Christ, not criticizing to be critical, but with substantive arguments. And these were not anti-Charismatic people! They were loving, discerning Christians that knew their Bible and subject everything to the scrutiny of scripture. I took note of several blogs on the subject, including those on Charisma online, and tellingly, most of those that voiced concerns about TB and his doctrines did so in love, and a deep concern for the body of Christ that was/is being led astray, but so many of those that put those of us down for "judging", did so in a spirit of anger and divisivness, relying mostly on what they had "felt" or "experienced" in TB's meetings!
The root of the problem is this: The Charismatic/Pentecostal movement on the whole has been much too "experience" oriented,and not enough "scripture" oriented. Increasingly, it seems "pop-theology" within the C/P movement is built on shifting sand. I was raised, and schooled as a staunch Southern Baptist. I have a deep SB heritage, which I highly value. That, not withstanding, I knew in my heart early on, despite what I was taught, that God was not through with some of His gifts, while still using others. When I got to seminary, I met others who believed the same thing, and God awesomely touched me there, sovreignly blessing me with "the baptism of the Spirit," if you will. At the time, there were several charismatic SB churches emerging, and I actively became part of that movement. But the thing that became very obvious to me was that in the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement as a whole, there was a significant ignorance of sound doctrine. Having had such a good background in doctrine and methods of biblical interpretation, I was amazed at the misuse of scripture, and the emphasis on experience over scripture! One thing that the SB's have done right is to place emphasis on its church members understanding the importance and proper place of Church Doctrine, hence the program called "church training." Not only that, but when I was growing up, I was responsible to memorize several Bible verses every week for Sunday School, thus "hiding God's word in my heart" which has reaped great benefits in my life ever since. Unfortunately, many Charismatic/Pentecostal churches not only don't have any vehicle for teaching church doctrine, they have done away with Sunday School, or Bible Study, if you please. The only "teaching" that most members get is the Sunday morning "preaching." Because of that, most people that have grown up in the C/P movement have no foundation on which to judge any errant theology/doctrine, because they simply DON'T KNOW THE SCRIPTURES! Chances are, most can't even quote for memory even a dozen verses, much less the doctrines of our faith! (Could this be why so many "Christians" now believe that there is more than one way to God??) These poor sheep have become sitting ducks, ripe for the kill when the enemy comes with convoluted theology! Add that to an educational system that has taught most of us to not think for ourselves (carefully examine,discern), and we have a recipe for mass deception by the enemy! No other segment of the Body of Christ, the church, is SO gullible to the newest "fad." We have subconsciously substituted signs and wonders for a deep, abiding walk with God. As a product of our culture, we have a microwave mind-set, wanting a short-cut to maturity! I'm sorry, but we are admonished in scripture to be "OAKS of righteousness," with very deep roots, not scrubbrush along the banks of the creek, wildly flowering, but with hardly any root structure, and easily washed away when the floods come! I strongly agree that if there's any part of the Church that will be easy prey for the deceptions of the anti-Christ, it is the C/P's! Dare I say, that, perhaps, the only "theological" training that Todd Bentley received was from Bob Jones and Patricia King? If so, no wonder his theology is so lopsided! Balance does not have to mean "mediocre!"
All that is to say, I think God has sovreignly allowed Lakeland to "happen." In an attempt to reject legalism, many of us have thrown out the very thing that is meant to protect us from the deceptions of the evil one, bent on the destruction of the Church! We MUST look again to the time-tested doctrines of our faith, and learn them well! We must seek to earnestly "rightly divide the word of truth." That doesn't mean we all have to go to seminary, but we must not despise scholarship. Yes, we MUST listen to the Holy Spirit, as He illumines scripture to us. But it's a "both/and," not an "either/or!"
As far as the the "spiritual fathers" in the C/P movement go, they, too, should be brought to accountablility! Much of the errant theology swallowed by so many has its roots in our leaders' lack of attention to proper doctrine and biblical interpretation. If they don't humble themselves, God will! The more public humiliation that the Body of Christ suffers, the less we are able to speak into the culture, much less into lives that so desperately need Jesus!
God told me long ago that no one segment of the Body of Christ has all the truth; ALL the Body of Christ has ALL the truth, and we must learn from each other, humbly admitting that we just might be wrong in some element of our theology! Yes, we CAN learn something from our Protestant brothers and sisters, our Evangelical brothers and sisters, and even our Liturgical brothers and sisters!
So, I exhort you all (including leaders) to examine your own hearts AND theology, placing it honestly along side scripture, and CAREFULLY and PRAYERFULLY examine its import, even looking at scripture as though you had never seen it before. Don't be afraid to study others' view on scripture, especially if you think you might disagree with it. Allow that they just might be right and you might be wrong! You just might learn something. If, after honestly considering and studying, you conclude that you are right and they are wrong, then at least you can more intelligently defend your position. God does not expect us to check our brains at the door! Intelligence is part of being made in the image of God! Let's embrace ALL that God has given us, including our intelligence. Let's return to TRUE discipleship, which doesn't mean making clones of ourselves, but teaching others to "rightly divide the word of truth." That is true Love!
At September 10, 2008 11:33 PM ,
Anonymous said...
Isaiah 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
6:7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God;
6:8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
There seems to be a false assumption that Todd Bentley will repent from all his sins including sexual immorality, lying, thieving, etc. when the bible seems to say it will never happen - if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance
At September 11, 2008 9:30 AM ,
Reg said...
To Karen
Your entire response was Very Very well said --Who said women should be silent -proof positive of the misinterpretation of that verse.
You nailed it with your very good observation:
The root of the problem is this: The Charismatic/Pentecostal movement on the whole has been much too "experience" oriented,and not enough "scripture" oriented.
At September 20, 2008 6:31 PM ,
Reg said...
Bother Strang —
The main mentor of Todd Bentley, Bob Jones and Steve Shults of Elijahs List also need to be correct before it is too late. This was posted on a recent Elijah List:
In a vision on August 31, 2008,God tells Bob Jones:
"Your disappointments or expectations were stepping stones to My presence, and now, I'm going to demand that you flush them and look to the future - not the past, for those who look to the past have no future! I now have My Spirit in many of My people."
Reg says--- If we forget the past we are doomed to repeat it.
Listen to what Gregory Koukl gleaned from 2 Timothy:
"In Paul's final warning to the church, he does not counsel them to face the challenges of the future by embracing new movements of the Spirit. Instead, he tells them to look backwards, to continue in and guard what has already been revealed.
"This is Paul's message throughout his entire letter. 'Retain the standard of sound words which you have heard from me' (1:13). 'Guard...the treasure which has been entrusted to you' (1:14). 'And the things which you have heard from me...these entrust to faithful men, who will be able to teach others also' (2:2).
"Paul warns of a time of moral chaos falling on the world and theological chaos falling on the church. The antidote for both is the same: Steady at the helm. Guard what has already been entrusted to you. Continue in the things which you have already learned.
"Everything we need to be fruitful and productive, to be trained in righteousness, to be adequately equipped for every good work, has already been revealed. For Paul, all the old stuff was all the right stuff.
"New movement of the Spirit? Maybe. And maybe not. I don't have to decide. Instead, I'm taking the safe route by heeding Paul's advice and focusing on the old movement of the Spirit. And so should you." [11]
Marsha West says:
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/mwest/080830
Some good has come out of the "Lakeland Outpouring." It brought to light the highly unorthodox beliefs of the NAR. Those who are a part of this movement should commit 2 Timothy to memory. Another good thing that came out of it is that the Charismatic church leaders who participated in Todd Bentley's coronation ceremony have been exposed as false prophets and fools.
The chickens have come home to roost.
Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart. — Jer 14:
At September 21, 2008 10:44 AM ,
Reg said...
I disagree somewhat with what Marsha West said. I would not call them fools. What they did was foolish but only God gets to call someone a fool. Also I would not call them false prophets, or else they should be stoned. The words of Eth 4 says God set these gifts in the entire body to be used as the Spirit prompts any believer.
Just because God uses you a lot in one of the gifts does not mean you own the title. Like I said before their are only two titles -Elder and Deacon. All Elders & Deocons have the same authority to use what they are being gifted with.
Their is no such thing as a Senior Pastor or Senior Bishop or Pope. You may be asked to preside over your fellow elders or pastors or deacons but that is only a gift of administration.
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