Wednesday, July 2, 2008

Finally Something is Happening

It’s well known I supported Gov. Mike Huckabee in the primaries. From my perspective as a conservative Christian he was the perfect candidate--strong on the issues important to me yet an effective leader in Arkansas who is articulate, passionate and caring for those less fortunate.

I couldn't understand why more conservative Christian leaders--especially some in the Arlington Group--didn't support him. Some said he couldn't beat Sen. Hillary Clinton. Ironically Sen. Barack Obama is now the one to beat.

But now I'm supporting Sen. John McCain. I've long admired him as a great American hero. On the important issues I believe he's right on. However, he hasn't cozied up to the so-called religious right. But that's not a problem to me. Too many leaders in the Christian conservative movement wait to see who asks for their support instead of being principled. At least McCain is principled.

Phil Burress, president of Citizens for Community Values in Ohio, who met with McCain, came away a believer too. He sent out an email that is printed below along with an article about his meeting with McCain.

Burress wrote: "John McCain, unlike most politicians, will not be bullied, threatened, paid off or pressured into changing his position. That was refreshing."

At first some Christians leaders said they could never vote for John McCain. Other leaders seemed to be waiting to see which way the wind was blowing, lamenting that Christians don't seem to know what to do.

The fact is that most Christians will vote for McCain because of his stand against abortion and his support of traditional marriage. Read Burress' email and an article from the Los Angeles Times below to find out more of what McCain is now saying he will support.

But other Christians, if not fully informed, will be lethargic and just stay home on Election Day. Phyllis Schlafly, founder and president of Eagle Forum, told a meeting of evangelical leaders in Denver Tuesday that staying home would be a vote for Obama this year.

Marc Nuttle, an attorney from Oklahoma and author of Moment of Truth, says many people also "vote their pocket book" especially when the economy isn't good or gas prices are high. He said the stakes are high because other issues are involved in this election. (Click here to receive a free copy of Nuttle’s book if you subscribe to Charisma or renew your current subscription.)

I've reported on the meeting I had on June 1O with Barack Obama and another group of leaders--mostly more liberal denominational leaders and middle-of-the-road evangelicals in Chicago. Obama did a great job of saying just the right things to that group, and he sounded like a sincere Christian.

The problem is that his record doesn't back up his nice words, and he is known to say different things to different groups. Even though his personal Christian faith is right for him, he says, others can get to heaven believing in a different religion or no religion. That's universalism, and as I write in my column in Charisma, that's just wrong.

I've gone to a couple of meetings with Christian leaders in the past four months lamenting the current political situation and the dangers a Democratic victory poses to Christian values and religious freedom. At one meeting, not much happened except that we prayed for hours together. There is nothing wrong with prayer, but it was as if they didn't know how to bring together a strategy, only how to pray. For Christians it seems strategy is hard. Prayer is easy.

Now I believe some Christian leaders are waking up and beginning to understand that McCain does not need to cuddle up to the religious right to deserve our support. And they must get out the message to their millions of followers.

But there is a longer-term problem. The religious right (as the secular press calls us) is known for what it is against more than what it is for--a point Tim Clinton, president of the American Association of Christian Counselors in Lynchburg, Va., articulated well at the Denver meeting.

This reputation comes because a couple of the national Christian leaders come across as grumpy and self-righteous. They are sometimes so dogmatic that if you don't support the things they support with the verbiage they use and to the extent they feel it should be supported, you are suspect and probably shouldn't be a part of their coalition.

Thankfully, one or two leaders best known for those traits weren't invited to the Denver meeting.

Instead there seemed to be an awareness that Christian conservatives must show they "care" for people, for the poor and for the environment and aren't just "against" things.

"We're at a crossroads," Mathew Staver, president of Liberty Counsel and dean of the law school at Liberty University, told the Denver group. "We're not speaking with unity and clarity. We've been a fractured movement the past 18 months."

Staver, who called the meeting, had several articulate young people give a tutorial to the mostly gray-haired group on how younger conservatives view things.

To me the meeting showed that leaders are recognizing that we must get out the word to elect John McCain. Egos are being put aside. There seemed to be unity--especially when Mike Huckabee's name was mentioned as a potential running mate.

I'm trying to get an interview with both Sen. McCain and Sen. Obama. I want to ask them the same questions and run their answers in Charisma as well as on the Internet. I think that it will be very telling and the average Christian will understand which way to vote.

The election is only four months away. A lot can happen in four months as Hillary Clinton discovered earlier this year. I predict McCain will win—not by a lot—but that's my prediction from where I sit.

Read the material from Phil Burress and please give us your opinion below.

Steve Strang




To: Friends of CCV

From: Phil Burress
June 27, 2008


As a result of 40 Ohio Pro-Family Forum leaders meeting with two McCain Campaign staffers last Saturday, six of us were asked to meet privately with him yesterday afternoon. There was a lot of media coverage, but the attached story does the best job of explaining the meeting. However, it does leave out the fact the Ohio Pro-Family Leaders have decided to move forward and start working to educate Ohio Values Voters about the vast differences between McCain and Obama. Personally, I can’t wait any longer and can’t take the chance that Obama will be our next president. I spent an hour sitting next to McCain, questioning him and listening as the group took him to task on issues like embryonic stem cell research. Dr. Willke, Founder of National Right to Life, gave him every reason to reverse himself on that issue. For me this election is primarily about the next Supreme Court appointments, even though McCain is with us on many other issues as well. Watching him, looking at his broken body and thinking about the price he paid as a POW was overwhelming. When he reached to scratch his eyebrow he had to take his right hand to lift his left to do so. I understand the difference between respecting this man as a war veteran, and working for him as candidate for president of the United States. But I must say that it is men like this that guarantee us our freedom. I also understand those who say they will not vote for him and I respect their principled position. Yesterday, though, I saw and listened to a man who likewise is principled. John McCain, unlike most politicians, will not be bullied, threatened, paid off or pressured into changing his position. That was refreshing. I was once one of those people who said “no way” to Senator John McCain as President. No longer. The stakes are too high. And if Obama wins I need to able to get up on November 5th, look at myself in the mirror, and when I pray, say, “Lord, I did all that I could.” Blessings.



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25 Comments:

  • At July 2, 2008 6:40 PM , Blogger mward said...

    The Republican party is more than lethargic. They are sleeping! We need young Republicans to get out there and help CHANGE the image of the Grand Old Party (get rid of that name for starters!) Obama's record speaks volumes. How can any Christian even consider voting for someone with his values or not getting out to vote at all. Southerners especially are having difficulty with changing over from a history of Democratic voting to voting Republican which is really what their values reflect. Let's get moving.

     
  • At July 2, 2008 7:28 PM , Blogger daly.de.gagne@gmail.com said...

    Why is it, other than taking a very selective view of scripture, that charismatic Christians, along with other evangelicals, seem to have a compulsion to be politically right wing? Neither party is much to write home about, but when I look at the economic deficits run up by Republican administrations, and the war in Iraq, which in spite of putting as patriotic a spin on it as possible, is essentially an invasion based on false information, I wonder why it is so important for Christian to have Sen. McCain as their political "cuddle buddy."

    Surely, it is essential for us as charismatic Christians to consider the possibility that the gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ calls us to be socially accountable and progressive. That is not to be found within the Republican party (and probably not much more in the Democratic party either), so where is this need to prove we have clout by cudddling up to the politics of the world?

    Our power doesn't come from party politics, voting as a block, or getting the correct ("right") candidate when there is in an objective sense not much difference between them -- it comes from the Holy Spirit. But in our humanity we become intoxicated by the whiff of worldly power, and being able to influence it in a way that will show how righteous and moral we are. It would be more to the point if we used our strength to ensure that fundamental changes take place that will enable all of God's children to live free of poverty, racism, drugs, a prison-based justice system that doesn't work, and the blatantly greedy and ethically questionable actions taken by various wealthy, vested interests. These are issues that should compel Christians to respond out of Spirit-filled love for a broken world; instead we get stuck on "moral" issues, and incur the unrighteousness of failing to stand in the gap, with our prayers and actions, for all those who suffer from the social inequalities of our society.

    If one thinks that it would truly matter to Jesus whether Sen. Obama or Sen. McCain gets in, I think it reflects a delusion as to who Jesus is, and what His message is all about. He might say, "Whatever. By the way what have you done that makes a difference for the least of these my brethren?"

    Daly de Gagne

     
  • At July 2, 2008 7:50 PM , Blogger Harriet said...

    I have been praying about this election. As a Christian and a minister, I know the importance of having a President that supports the life of the unborn child as well as preserve the sancitity of marriage. As I Christian I feel like the only choice that I have at this point is to vote for John McCain. If Barack Obama supported the life of the unborn child, I would vote for him. Over the past eight years I have seen friends and acquaintances lose their jobs because their positions went overseas. Some had to train the people in India how to do their job and then they were released. The Republican Party must address these economic issues that have affected the middle class people. I know that Jesus Christ is my source and takes care of my needs. He is my source! But I believe that the President should show concern and present changes for the economic situation this country faces. I haven't seen John McCain show that concern. This Presidential campaign has produced so many emotions on the inside of me. But when making a choice about a candidate, my faith in Jesus Christ is the compass that directs my decision. I will continue to pray and no matter which candidate wins, they will have my support in prayer.

     
  • At July 2, 2008 7:54 PM , OpenID jianco said...

    Daly, The reason we have to unite and vote for McCain is the same reason we would have united to vote against Hitler, Stalin or Mao. If we do as you suggest... nothing... then the bad guys are insured their victory. My Bible tells me that we are here to advance the reign of God, not to let the devil take over.

     
  • At July 2, 2008 8:34 PM , Blogger gary said...

    Steve said:-
    (quote)
    However, he hasn't cozied up to the so-called religious right. (quote)
    -------------------------------
    You have to be kidding!Big time! Huckabee was in bed literally with Copeland and co. He slept in Copeland's house and licked the shoes of charismatic leaders!
    He 'cozied', crawled and scammed up to christian leaders but his conning and conniving and anti Grassley deals with Copeland blew up in his face.
    Huckabee was a dud, is a dud, and always will be a dud!
    He also is just as big an Illuminati shoe licker as any of the others.Try researching www.cuttingedge.com. He is two faced and is not interested in christian values, just his own fame and power!

     
  • At July 2, 2008 8:37 PM , Blogger Elhalema said...

    In a nutshell, many white, evangelical Christians are racist and hypocritical. This bible thumping group is fervently anti-abortion but silent about other life issues such as poverty, racism, etc. Clearly, this group is only concerned with keeping America's political and economic power structure firmly in the hands of white men, which is why they are desperate to defeat Obama. I have no use for this crowd of hateful and evil people cloaked in the Bible and American flag. This is the same crowd that applauded an predominantly white grand jury for refusing to indict Joe Horn of Houston for killing two people for stealing.

     
  • At July 2, 2008 9:01 PM , Blogger DaveBessey said...

    After reading the above comments I see the Holy Spirit still has a lot of work to do to bring unity too the body of Christ. Whether John McCain or Barraka Obama wins the election in November we as the "Church" have our focus on the wrong thing. We must put our eyes on the author and perfecter of our faith. Jesus is coming back soon and we need to get the word out. Vote this election, but preach the gospel that Jesus commanded us to carry to the ends of the earth. He is at the door. Get he Word out while there is still time in the day of salvation. Let the love of your neighbor and your enemy be your guide. Foremost, let your love of God be enough to put Him first and obey. Jesus said forgive and you will be forgiven. Repent and be healed in the name of Jesus. God Bless You!

     
  • At July 2, 2008 10:05 PM , Blogger Danny said...

    I as one Evangelical/Charismatic/Pentecostal pastor am glad to hear that 70 evangelical leaders finally met in Denver to discuss support for John McCain. It's way past the time to do so.

    Christians had better wake up and smell the coffee. There is more at possible loss than we will all want to deal with if Obama is elected. Too many or shall I say perhaps it was only a couple that we sometimes look to for leadership, have gone off to their corners to cry about how the candidates are doing it exactly as they wanted.

    I have principles, too! But, wisdom tells me that you sometimes have to vote for the best candidate even though, he or she may not be everything you want.

    Some of the comments made on this column a naive. To say that we should not be involved in the vote is simple minded. Yes, we should be out preaching the gospel, but in America we elect our officials and leaders. Evil leaders will lead the country down the wrong path.

    Proverbs 29:2 (NIV) reads,
    "When the righteous thrive, the people rejoice;
    when the wicked rule, the people groan."

    Proverbs 14:34 (NIV) reads,"
    "Righteousness exalts a nation,
    but sin is a disgrace to any people."

    Followers of Christ must make a stand and give wise spirit-filled leadership which will bring peace in the land with righteous living that the Gospel may go forth.

    Elhalema said...
    "In a nutshell, many white, evangelical Christians are racist and hypocritical."

    That is stereotyping if I ever heard it, to borrow a word from the sixties. I am concerned about racism and poverty as well as saving the lives of the unborn. It just so happens that my first priority has been saving the life of the unborn first. The unborn are innocent victims who have no way of fighting for themselves.

    I'm not saying the Republicans have it all together, but I lean in their direction. I think the Democrats have some good ideas, but some of their positions I cannot support as a Christian. I'm not saying any one candidate has it all together. But, if we do not take part in the political process in this country, we could very well be turning it over to evil men. All it takes for evil to preside is for a few good men to do nothing.

    I too would like to see more fiscal responsibility. Reagan helped bring down the Berlin Wall and Communism. But, it took going into debt with the military. I wish there could have been some other way. It seems that military has been another expensive defense against evil.

    People may criticize the war in Iraq, but I know one thing the President Bush has done with it. There has not been any other terrorist attack on American soil.

    I think America is in need of some new definitions of Conservativism. I think some Conservatives are seeking to redefine it. More need to join in on the process.

    I agree with DaveBessey who said, "I see the Holy Spirit still has a lot of work to do to bring unity too the body of Christ."

    God bless us all. I pray the Holy Spirit will lead us and empower us to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, win souls, bring wise social justice, and wisely take part in the presidential election as responsible citizens in the country in which we have been so blessed to be citizens.

     
  • At July 2, 2008 10:08 PM , Blogger Pauline said...

    I would like to hear a Question and Answer interview with John McCain about his personal 'faith'. We haven't heard him speak much about his 'christian faith' and I believe America need a President who is a true Christian - one who believes that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. One who believes that Jesus Christ is the ONLY WAY to salvation. Without a Christian leader how can we expect the Christian principles to be at the forefront of all decision making? Christians stand up and be counted. Now is the time. Pray and vote but first do your homework and know who in their heart of hearts believes in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour and the only Way. I'll be praying for your country that God's will shall prevail. Blessings from Australia

     
  • At July 3, 2008 4:58 AM , OpenID bollyo said...

    From the perspective of someone who resides in Europe where the church has zero political clout, the american obsession with having a 'christian'president is a luxury. America needs a christian people, a people who not only believe the gospel but live it out, in a democracy the government will do what the masses of people want. The church should focus its energies on reversing the decline of the faith in society and obedience to the gospel among professing christians rather than politicking. Europe went the route of the state religion, it did not work, it merely turned society against the church. Capture the hearts and minds of the nation, of the society, of the media and you will capture the government. I see no precedent in scripture for the church as a body backing a political leader against another, this simply weakens the church and turns it into the pawn of political authorities. America needs to wake up, it is getting dechristianised, not by the president, but by the lethargy of the church and the shenanigans of preachers. Evangelicalism is not a political option and should not be hijacked by a group of 'leaders' and turned into the religious wing of one party. We in Europe have great difficulty preaching the gospel because we are immediately identified as the pawns of right wing americans who want to take over Europe. Religious leaders can support who they want but it is wrong to use the authority of the church of Jesus Christ, a divine institution to play partisan politics. The church has always suffered from unholy alliances with political leaders, beginning with Constantine. Learn from the history of Europe, we cannot legislate morality, but we can convert people to Christ and teach them to observe the teachings of Jesus, and they will not kill their babies, indulge in perversion, even if the law allows them to.

     
  • At July 3, 2008 7:21 AM , Blogger Freda Phillips said...

    Sham;e on you Steve Strang and Charima for being blinded by emotions and party affliation. How can you dare a so called Christian organization support a person who left his family and call him a man of principals. The racism of American is showing loud and clear. Your spiritual blindness is showing loud and clear. Why not read first the remarkable senate record of Senator Obama and compare it to that of Senator McCain. I am tired of hearing about experience and if you would take the time to educate yourself on Senator Obamas senate record you would leave that alone. The current President has totally single handedly destroyed the economic base of America and you want to support more of the same. Shame on you Charisma your racism is showing. I am also apalled at Republicans who try and tote morals and values over Democrats. I would put the lives of the Democratic Christians I know up against the so called Christan republicans any day and you would be put to shame. Stop saying it because you are speaking against holy men and women of God who are fasting and praying that God will have mercy upon the ignorance of our unenlightened and uninformed Republican Christian brothers and sisters. If will be dooms day for America if Senator McCain gets into office and I ask God to have mercy on my family and church because we will not support such an unprincipaled man. Shame on you Charima for being spiritually blind and racist. It is showing loud and clear.

     
  • At July 3, 2008 9:32 AM , Blogger Danny said...

    I think some people outside the United States obviously do not understand the government of the United States of America. God bless you anyway. I send my love to you in Christ. However, our government was founded on Christian principles. And most of the founding fathers were strong Christians. Christians were heavily involved in the government of the country. If people will take the time to study our government and leadership from the early years, they will see that it was the Christian religious influence upon the government that made the huge difference from other revolutions and democracies that were starting near the same time. I am not saying that the United States has been a perfect government or country. It is not. She has much need for the gospel to continue to be preached. Many still need to hear and obey the gospel of Jesus Christ. What went wrong historically was when Christians began to back out of government and para-government organizations. Various leaders set forth to get "God" out of the government around the turn of the 19th to the 20th century. Christians did not like that direction and backed out. Therefore, they let the others have control to get God out.

    Some may say they see no scriptural president for Christians to get involved in the government, but we have free speech in America and if we do not make a statement and give action to elect godly leaders we are allowing the devil to take charge. We do have a responsibility to elect godly leaders.

    And, yes, morality is legislated. People have to decide if they will follow it or not. But murder is still against the law and that is a moral issue.

    Yes, we should win the hearts of the people. And, yes Christians should live the Christian life and win people to Jesus Christ. Then people will change and laws will change.

    I am saddened also because some think that those who want to vote for McCain are raciest because they are against Obama. Race has nothing to do with it. It might for some, but I will venture to say that for most it is not a racial issue. I know for me it is not a racial issue. I cannot support Obama, because of his votes for abortion and support for "gay marriage." He may be against it personally, but he supports it otherwise. It has nothing to do with race. I want to be a voice to protect the unborn. And, that’s a social issue.

    Futhermore, no one should place the blame on the President for "ruining" the U.S. economy. He has not done that alone. We do have a democratic congress. And, we do have a changing world economic situation. Economics are affected by more world-wide economics than ever before. The growing economies of China and India influence the price of gasoline and other products. There are many issues of influence. There is need for much prayer.

    Finally, I want to say that I for one am a Christian before I am a member of any political party. My first allegiance is to Jesus Christ. He is my Lord and Savior. There is no other.

     
  • At July 3, 2008 11:40 AM , Blogger daly.de.gagne@gmail.com said...

    Denny, your comment about the people outside the US who do not understand the US government, that you love them anyhow, strikes a distinctly condescending note. Yes, the US was founded on Christian principles, and at least as much as any other modern democracy, if not more, violates those principles.

    The Christian from Europe was providing us the insight of history and experience. We in North America often seem to have problems learning from our own history and experience, never mind someone else's. But if you take the time to reflect on what Bollyo was saying, he/she was making an analysis of what happens when the church becomes needlessly politicized.

    To step aside from the process, rather than to find someone to cuddle with, to use Steve's unfortunate word, does not mean we let our morals slip, or are approving things we do not approve of.

    What it means is that we let Caesar's folk do their thing, and we do ours, which is reaching out to people directly and teaching them and winning them to the ways of Jesus, and enabling them to accept Him as Lord and Savior. The negative reception the American evangelical church is for the same reason as Bollyo says the European church gets a cold shoulder: it is perceived as being a pawn of the right wing. Church and state do not mix well. Win the people, and let the people influence the politicians.

    As well, the thirst to play politics every four years almost always results in evangelicals saying things that are stupid (just as any other politician does), and reflect badly on us all. This election is no exception. The best example is Hagee's comments on Catholicism, but there are other examples. My father was a rabid anti-Catholic, and he spoke exactly as Hagee did; for the latter to plead unawareness is a stretch that has lead to many people questioning his and our credibility.

    Christian involvement in politics is essentially a one or two issue moral platform dealing with abortion and sexual orientation. The platform -- the mandate -- Jesus gave us is a much more multi-faceted, complex one with many planks that is about transforming individuals and embodying the Kingdom of God here and now. Our political forays usually do little to advance the Kingdom, and often make us look foolish.

    So we have a choice, play in Caesar's sandbox or go out into the deserts that so many of our communities have become for so many people and do the work that Jesus did. Of course, Jesus' work is harder, and doesn't provide for the same glow of self-righteousness that human beings appear to need, just as some people must put milk in their coffee.

    I have the sense from watching many religious leaders that they also need the fix of self-importance, and being seen as righteous, that comes from hob-nobbing with the political crowd. Surely there are more than a few of us charismatics that can see the problems implicit with the needless politicization of our faith -- just because we say we do it in Jesus' name or for good moral reasons does not necessarily make it right -- uh, I mean correct (grin).

    Daly de Gagne

     
  • At July 3, 2008 2:04 PM , Blogger chosenson32 said...

    www.constitutionparty.com we as christians do have a choice this nov. chuck baldwin is a pastor and true conservative unlike the other 2 choices, he just needs exposure! remember the lesser of 2 evils is still evil!God bless everyone

     
  • At July 3, 2008 11:10 PM , Blogger Danny said...

    Hello Daly de Gagne and others. Thank you for your comments. It is good to dialogue. Also, the name is Danny not Denny. :) Thank you.

    I knew someone would misinterpret what I was saying, but I had already posted the comment. But thank you for your comments. Words are great, but can be misinterpreted sometimes.

    I would never imply that the church should have such a relationship as to have a state church, which is what I seem to understand some to write. Our forefathers understood that very well. That's why we have freedom of religion in the USA. With a democratic form of government we need to have religious influence on the government. By religious I do not mean controlling the government. But, I mean having an influence on society and then as you say having transformed people we can have Christians in governments who have respect and godly fear of God. Did I understand you correctly? I pray people will understand what I am saying. In every society, the church has a responsibility to speak to the people of that society, especially in a democracy.

    One of our early American forefathers stated (and I paraphrase) that a democracy needs to be ruled by a religious people. If not it will destroy itself.

    Some may say a democracy is not Christian. It is however in my opinion the best form of government whether as a democracy or republic with representation.

    To say the church should not or the pastors, evangelists, and preachers should not make comment about how a government is run or on issues that a government is involved is not scriptural. You say render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God's, does not mean the church should not speak into the government. The church is first of all the people of God who make up the Church Universal or as I state it, all true believers in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. But that should not keep the church from speaking whether it is individual members of the church universal or organized members of various denominations or some individual denominations.

    Also someone referred to the fact that the "clout" that the church had in America with the government was a luxury. I don't see it as a luxury. I see it as a blessing.

    I do not mean to be condescending. Please forgive me if I sounded or implied condescension. I could have worded that better. I said I do think and know that many people including people in the United States do not have a clear perception of their history and the Christian influence that has been upon it. Modern historians have clouded the issues and lied to the American people by leaving out the Christian heritage in so many of our American forefathers. It is not condescending to say that. It is simply stating a fact.

    One of the reasons for founding the United States of America was for freedom of religion.

    The implication that I hear in this discussion is the separation of church and state.
    There are people who want to emphasize separation of church and state. It's a quote from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a pastor who was concerned about the church in relation to the government. It’s not in the Constitution of the United States of America. Jefferson stated (and I paraphrase) that the government would not tell people how to worship or in what church. In other words there would not be a national church. However, it was only a one way street. The church could speak into the government.

    If we look in the Old Testament, we see that prophets spoke into the lives of the Kings. You may say that was OT. I believe it still has implication for us to speak God's Word to governments and society as well as individuals.

    Some of you may obviously disagree with me. You are welcome to do so. I am still a Christian first and foremost. As a responsible citizen of the USA, I will vote in the upcoming elections.

    I think it rather presumptuous and condescending to think that pastors around the USA want to simply rub shoulders with politicians. There may be some that are that way.

    People need also to understand that Hagee was misquoted by the press. He was on television the other night making note of that fact. He has great relationships with the Catholic Church. He and the church he pastors bought a Christian school from the Catholic Church in San Antonio. It was established by nuns who were directly under the Pope. Hagee's church supported the Nuns for several years. A secular press who did not understand what he was teaching out of the book of Revelations misquoted Hagee.

    I work in the deserts. My first ministry is my family. As a pastor my next ministry is my local church, then the community in which I live. I could perhaps do more. But, I am out there. I spend far more time there than in any politics. I pray for the leaders of the community including the local government. I pray for governments beyond the local community to the state and national governments and even governments of other countries. Just because I want and feel led of the Holy Spirit to have a voice in the government, does not mean I am wrong.

    I still think every citizen has a responsibility in a democracy. It seems according to some people that to speak into the government and deal with the government is to deal with the devil. Yes, the devil may be out there. But that does not mean we should take no leadership in that area, especially if one feels led of the Holy Spirit to do so.

    Some may be afraid of being called a fool for standing for various issues and concerns. Or, they may be concerned about those who look "foolish." Some may be wacko. Are we more concerned about looking like a fool or standing for what we should stand for? I'm just asking a question.
    Hello Daly de Gagne and others. Thank you for your comments. It is good to dialogue. Also, the name is Danny not Denny. :) Thank you.

    I knew someone would misinterpret what I was saying, but I had already posted the comment. But thank you for your comments. Words are great, but can be misinterpreted sometimes.

    I would never imply that the church should have such a relationship as to have a state church, which is what I seem to understand some to write. Our forefathers understood that very well. That's why we have freedom of religion in the USA. With a democratic form of government we need to have religious influence on the government. By religious I do not mean controlling the government. But, I mean having an influence on society and then as you say having transformed people we can have Christians in governments who have respect and godly fear of God. Did I understand you correctly? I pray people will understand what I am saying. In every society, the church has a responsibility to speak to the people of that society, especially in a democracy.

    One of our early American forefathers stated (and I paraphrase) that a democracy needs to be ruled by a religious people. If not it will destroy itself.

    Some may say a democracy is not Christian. It is however in my opinion the best form of government whether as a democracy or republic with representation.

    To say the church should not or the pastors, evangelists, and preachers should not make comment about how a government is run or on issues that a government is involved is not scriptural. You say render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God's, does not mean the church should not speak into the government. The church is first of all the people of God who make up the Church Universal or as I state it, all true believers in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. But that should not keep the church from speaking whether it is individual members of the church universal or organized members of various denominations or some individual denominations.

    Also someone referred to the fact that the "clout" that the church had in America with the government was a luxury. I don't see it as a luxury. I see it as a blessing.

    I do not mean to be condescending. Please forgive me if I sounded or implied condescension. I could have worded that better. I said I do think and know that many people including people in the United States do not have a clear perception of their history and the Christian influence that has been upon it. Modern historians have clouded the issues and lied to the American people by leaving out the Christian heritage in so many of our American forefathers. It is not condescending to say that. It is simply stating a fact.

    One of the reasons for founding the United States of America was for freedom of religion.

    The implication that I hear in this discussion is the separation of church and state.
    There are people who want to emphasize separation of church and state. It's a quote from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a pastor who was concerned about the church in relation to the government. It’s not in the Constitution of the United States of America. Jefferson stated (and I paraphrase) that the government would not tell people how to worship or in what church. In other words there would not be a national church. However, it was only a one way street. The church could speak into the government.

    If we look in the Old Testament, we see that prophets spoke into the lives of the Kings. You may say that was OT. I believe it still has implication for us to speak God's Word to governments and society as well as individuals.

    Some of you may obviously disagree with me. You are welcome to do so. I am still a Christian first and foremost. As a responsible citizen of the USA, I will vote in the upcoming elections.

    I think it rather presumptuous and condescending to think that pastors around the USA want to simply rub shoulders with politicians. There may be some that are that way. The Apostle Paul had to deal with such personalities. But, I believe there are many who want to make a genuine godly influence upon the United States of America.

    People need also to understand that Hagee was misquoted by the press. He was on television the other night making note of that fact. He has great relationships with the Catholic Church. He and the church he pastors bought a Christian school from the Catholic Church in San Antonio. It was established by nuns who were directly under the Pope. Hagee's church supported the Nuns for several years. A secular press who did not understand what he was teaching out of the book of Revelations misquoted Hagee.

    I work in the deserts. My first ministry is my family. As a pastor my next ministry is my local church, then the community in which I live. I could perhaps do more. But, I am out there. I spend far more time there than in any politics. I pray for the leaders of the community including the local government. I pray for governments beyond the local community to the state and national governments and even governments of other countries. Just because I want and feel led of the Holy Spirit to have a voice in the government, does not mean I am wrong.

    I still think every citizen has a responsibility in a democracy. It seems according to some people that to speak into the government and deal with the government is to deal with the devil. Yes, the devil may be out there. But that does not mean we should take no leadership in that area, especially if one feels led of the Holy Spirit to do so.

    Some may be afraid of being called a fool for standing for various issues and concerns. Or, they may be concerned about those who look "foolish." Some may be wacko. Are we more concerned about looking like a fool or standing for what we should stand for? I'm just asking a question.

    I've said my piece. It was not meant to harm anyone. I wanted to challenge some thinking. I don't claim to be perfect. I do not claim to have perfect theology! I don't know anyone who is perfect or has perfect theology. I do believe I have the Holy Spirit living in me, too.

    Even if you disagree with me and I disagree with you on some of these issues, I do remain in love with you my Christian brothers and sisters in Christ. I don’t mean to sound or be condescending. I simply mean to state that Christians can still be brothers and sisters in Christ and agree on essentials of the Christian faith even if they disagree on nonessentials of the Christian faith. As said earlier, I am a Christian first, a follower of Jesus Christ.

    I've said my piece. It was not meant to harm anyone. I wanted to challenge some thinking. I don't claim to be perfect. I do not claim to have perfect theology! I don't know anyone who is perfect or has perfect theology. I do believe I have the Holy Spirit living in me, too.

    Even if you disagree with me and I disagree with you on some of these issues, I do remain in love with you my Christian brothers and sisters in Christ. I don’t mean to sound or be condescending. I simply mean to state that Christians can still be brothers and sisters in Christ and agree on essentials of the Christian faith even if they disagree on nonessentials of the Christian faith. As said earlier, I am a Christian first, a follower of Jesus Christ.

     
  • At July 3, 2008 11:32 PM , Blogger CubberMom said...

    Guess what? Just because we prefer McCain over Obama does NOT make us racists. In the same way, just because I prefer McCain rather than Romney doesn't make me a bigot.

    I support McCain because his stand on issues seems, to me, to line up more closely with God's values (as outlined in the Bible) than Obama's do. And that's NOT just the two issues of abortion and homosexuality.

    [But don't discount those two issues. Scripture is clear about how God views the murder of innocents... and in many places the Bible says that homosexual behavior is an abomination to Him.]

    And to the person who said this:
    "...racist and hypocritical. This bible thumping group is fervently anti-abortion but silent about other life issues such as poverty, racism, etc."

    I am here to tell you that you are just plain WRONG. It is white evangelical Christians who are operating literacy programs, food banks, job training programs, rescuing girls from sex trafficking, adopting special-needs and handicapped babies, rebuilding New Orleans and Mississippi, offering repeated apologies for their ancestors' sins of slavery, working for social justice, and much, much more.

    White business owners give jobs to black applicants, who then slack off, show up late, cop an attitude, and then if they get fired, they sue for racial discrimination. The business owners have to spend $1,000s to defend themselves, even if they win.

    I know for a fact that when black people are able to overcome poverty, they move out of their former neighborhoods and they DON'T come back to help.

    My family and I lived in an inner-city neighborhood for 3 years and tried to reach out. The more we served, helped, and gave, the more was expected, even demanded. People didn't work, or even want to... they went from free breakfast to free clothing to free medical care to free lunch to free job training to free housing (Section 8 subsidized) to free food pantries to free activities for their kids and free daycare to free remodeling of their houses to free... well, you get the idea. (Or do you?)

    The ambulances ran day and night, fixing diabetic people's blood sugar because they ate so much junk food. I personally saw how all the ladies in line at the grocery store paid with their gov't-issued welfare food cards... while wearing sculptured nails and hairdos that cost $100 a month to maintain.

    Those were MY family's hard-earned dollars paying for all that. If my husband and I worked hard in school and got better-paying jobs because we have better skills, why should WE have to support people who get their hair done twice a month and watch TV all day? That's called "income redistribution," another name for Communism.

    Well, we hung in there until the constant ANTI-WHITE violence and hate crimes against my 4 small children grew too dangerous. Several other families in our circle of acquaintance had the exact same experience, and they finally left, too.

    So I resent your sweeping indictment of "white evangelical Christians" as being racist and hypocritical. How dare you!

     
  • At July 3, 2008 11:38 PM , Blogger CubberMom said...

    To 'Freda' who referred us to Obama's "remarkable Senate record," are you kidding?? He has done NOTHING. In his 2 years he has not initiated any meaningful legislation, not led on any issue.

    He has voted "Present" many times in his career in order to protect his personal ambitions, so that no one could hold a vote one way or the other against him. He doesn't even work with moderates -- all his positions and votes are at the extreme liberal edge.

    Worst of all, while in the Illinois state senate, he voted twice against the "Born Alive Infant Protection Act." Look it up! Do a Google search! This law would have protected little babies who somehow survived the butchery of abortion, and forced the "doctors" to help them. Obama said this would somehow encroach on a woman's right to an abortion, and he worked against this humane law!

    He also voted to remove the ban on partial birth abortion. What kind of monster wants to kill innocent babies that badly? Do you even KNOW how a partial-birth abortion is performed? Look it up, then ask yourself: Why would anyone support this gruesome, horrifying method of killing live, late-term babies?

    And by the way, although African-Americans make up only 12% of American citizens, they account for almost half of abortions. Abortion kills black babies! Why do you think Planned Parenthood puts so many of their blood-soaked abortion clinics in inner-city areas?

    So please consider... who is the racist hypocrite?

     
  • At July 3, 2008 11:42 PM , Blogger Danny said...

    I wasn't going to say anything else, but I've gotta say, "YO Cubbrmom"!

     
  • At July 4, 2008 4:45 AM , Blogger the1HEloves said...

    Hello to my Christian family.
    I live in the south, but originally from Ohio. My husband was Army until he retired after 24 yrs last Sept and I have seen a very interesting thing here. I heard some racial comments earlier and would like to simply say,...you don't vote for a man because his skin is the color of yours! I see a large majority of black skinned people voting and supporting Obama solely because he is black and they feel,as one sign I saw said,"the hope for blacks in America". It's a huge racial thing here in NC. HUGE!! Even to the affect that our pulpits are showing clips of people like Oprah backing Obama so that we will be aware of who is actually following this man. There is division in our churches here because there is racism here and it seems that this election has muddied the waters and brought to the surface the real truth about what we think of one another in the church. If white Christians don't vote for Obama, they're racists. If black Christians vote for Obama, they're racists. It's a real eye-opener and I just say, Be led by the Holy Ghost. He may surprise you.

     
  • At July 4, 2008 12:10 PM , Blogger William said...

    I respectfully disagree with Steve Strang's statement that prayer is easy and strategy is hard. In truth, we American Evangelical Christians are much better at strategizing than we are at prayer. We come up with "good" ideas and then proceed to ask God to bless them. All our "good" ideas aren't good enough. Look at where we are today;the fruit of our labors is paltry indeed. The truth of the matter is that we need the "God" idea, not just a "good" idea; and it will only come from our leaders seeking His face, learning to wait on Him, and hear from Him before they leave to pursue the best strategy they've come up with on their own. More of the same won't change our desperate situation. We need to get our strategy from time spent together in God's presence. We've got to get God's strategy, and that will only come as we learn to hear from Him. We need more fasting and prayer for such a purpose-not less. And it's not gonna come after just a couple of days of prayer. Desperate times call for desperate prayer. We've got to get with God's program, not go with our own. Otherwise, we are toast!

     
  • At July 4, 2008 10:16 PM , Blogger Danny said...

    To the1heloves, Thanks for the level headed comment on racism. It was level headed and insightful to inspire us into the Spirit of God.

    Also concerning the statement on prayer is easy and strategy is hard. I think we must understand what Strang is saying. It is sometimes easier to stop, get together, and pray in contrast to getting together to strategize. I don't think Strang is saying we should not get into the presence of God and listen to what He has to say and give us His leadership. I think Strang is saying pray, but in the practicality of things, people do need to get together and do some strategizing. This is for churches as well as other groups. God works through human minds as well. When we pray our minds can be alerted to the leadership of the Holy Spirit. God did give us minds to think with led by the Holy Spirit.

     
  • At July 5, 2008 6:38 AM , Blogger James said...

    What part of Obama's record gives you pause? I ask only because I was under the impression he didn't have much of a record....

     
  • At July 6, 2008 1:51 PM , Blogger michael57 said...

    I really think that most people are not aware that they are prejudice, or care because why would any one race say something so negative about another race? because we ALL HAVE SINNED an fall short. WE have lazy an every sin known to man in all race, whatever you say blacks are so is every race in the world, And know the world is not fair' but God is. Get off about what Blacks are not doing and start saying and living truly from the heart what Jesus Truly said to do.

     
  • At October 10, 2008 7:16 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Amen, Bro. Strang, to your articles and writings and beliefs. Keep speaking the truth and put it out there regardless of those who disagree and criticize. You are a light in a dark world with your writings and may many, many people see and receive the truth as you continue to life up the standard that God wills for you to do and be.

    Blessings, strength and peace be multiplied to you always!

    Evelyn

     
  • At October 28, 2008 2:59 AM , Anonymous Jesus was a Hippie!! said...

    I like Jesus, but so many of His "followers" sicken me. The overt racism spewed out in this blog will surely result in a nice long stay in Hell for many "christians".

    This has always been a racist nation, supported by the gov't and most of the religions. Nothing is new under the sun.

    You guys have strayed so far from the message of Jesus that I doubt He would even recognize many of you.

    Here is a scary thought for you to ponder: Jesus was probably Black! Or, even worse for many of you, a Jew! Or maybe even brown-skinned! But definitely not white and blue-eyed!

    Ya'll in for a real shock at the Pearly Gates!

     

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