Thursday, May 22, 2008

The Long-term Effects of Revival


It's exciting to see what's happening in Lakeland. In my 32 years of covering the charismatic movement, I've never seen any "revival meeting" get so much attention so fast. Everyone, it seems, is talking about it. A long line of respected leaders have attended the meetings to see it for themselves. Most have come away saying it's a genuine move of God.

After only 50 days, someone said the revival is still a "baby." So it's not fair to pass judgment yet. That is for God to do. But at the same time, we can look at history to give us an idea of what to expect. After all, it's well known that those who don't learn the lessons of history are bound to repeat them.

There are many examples of revivals that have had long-term effects on the culture. The First and Second Great Awakenings in the 1700s and 1800s had enormous impact on our nation which in some ways we are still experiencing today. For example, it began a cycle of revivals in this country that continues. Compare that to Europe that hasn't had the same sort of revival movements, or where revival is snuffed out as it was in France with the Huguenots. Other revivals such as the one in the Hebrides Islands are discussed in books on revival, but I think most would agree there was not much long-term effect.

The Pentecostal movement which started at Azusa Street has had many revivals over the years and has had an enormous impact felt around the world. Yet many Pentecostals long for the "good-old-days" of revival that they experienced when they first came to Christ or received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Many-- instead of praying for souls or even for more of God in their lives-- will pray for revival. The excitement that touches the spirit and the closeness to God that one feels in the service is something that many people long for.

In my own career I've covered several "famous" revivals such as the ones in the 1990s in Toronto, Canada; Pensacola, Florida; Smithton, Missouri; and the meetings of Rodney Howard-Browne in Lakeland, Florida.

Those were great moves of God, I believe. Yet other "revivals" haven't always had such a positive effect. One, for example, broke out in the Dallas area in the mid-1980s when some services with a well-known charismatic preacher turned into extended meetings. Everyone was talking about it. Healings were taking place and those who had been healed put their crutches and other medical paraphernalia on the walls around the church. It was really something to behold.

I remember that ministry contacted me wanting coverage in Charisma, saying that the revival was the "greatest revival since Azusa Street." I attended and could tell there was excitement, but never felt it was worthy of comparison to the Azusa Street revival. I also knew that time would tell if the prophecy about a greater revival than Azusa Street would come to pass. Obviously it didn't. The revival died down, the pastor of the church went through a scandal a few years later, and the church building where the revival took place has been torn down, someone told me, and the property is now owned by the city government.

Another revival in the 1970s had an unfortunate affect on the church where it started. The revival was in San Jose, Calif., at one of the major Pentecostal churches in that city with a young evangelist I have long admired. It went on for months and everyone was talking about it. Sadly, there was a major church split as a result of the revival and that church actually went out of existence.

I cite these two examples (and there are more) as just a word of caution about what's happening in Lakeland, Fla. Just because people are excited, don't say --as someone is quoted as saying--that it's the greatest move of God since Azusa Street. The revival may actually be short lived, or the long-term effects not so pleasant, if things begin to go awry. What is happening in Lakeland is so wonderful that I believe we must nurture it and help it avoid pitfalls that could cause its demise.

I attended the services with Todd Bentley in Lakeland a second time recently when Bob Jones (the prophet, not the university) and Bobby Connor were there. (Click here to read my observations from my first visit.) I was moved by the nearly two hours of music and worship that night. The tone of the service was more serious than the first meeting I attended. Both Bobby Conner and Bob Jones ministered powerfully. Even though I had been warned by some friends who disagree with some theological points of Bob Jones, I sensed nothing wrong in my spirit. I was encouraged by attending.

I'm glad to see "revival" breaking out. It is wonderful to hear the testimonies of healing and even stories about people being raised from the dead. I hope the revival continues because I believe that it is a fresh move of God. But the focus must be on more than just what's happening in Lakeland (which is my hometown) and on only one ministry. What we need is a move of God that will impact the entire body of Christ-- not just 6,000 to 10,000 people in Central Florida on any given day, plus those who watch on TV, or the couple thousand who watch the streaming video on the Internet.

Thankfully Bentley is urging those who attend to take the revival “to the world.” Now we're beginning to hear of reports of revival breaking out beyond Lakeland, and we’ll report on these outbreaks as we hear of them. Some of them are coming from people who have attended the services in Lakeland and who have indeed "taken it home." But they haven't necessarily gotten the same media attention that the Lakeland revival has received. Of course most of the media attention has been from GodTV and the live streaming services that are available on the Internet. So far, there's been very little secular coverage beyond The Tampa Tribune and The Ledger (the two nearby newspapers) and a few local TV stations.

As a former newspaper reporter I can predict the media coverage that will eventually happen. First will come the "isn't-this-odd-but-interesting" type of story about the people shaking, falling over, the loud exuberant praise, and how unconventional Todd Bentley is with his tattoos and his saying "bam" when he touches people and they fall over. (As I wrote this someone e-mailed a story to me from The Ledger in Lakeland, where I once worked, which proves my point. Click here to read it.)

Next will come stories about the money, reporting on the offerings and who is getting how much, implying that something is wrong financially. Those stories will be followed by stories reporting criticism from people and ministries who don't agree with the revival, or investigations about some of the healings. All the healings that are reported aren't necessarily the miracles they appear to be. Sometimes healings are gradual yet the secular critic doesn’t always understand this, and will call these "non-healings."

Finally, there will be coverage of the people being raised from the dead. Even assuming that every report is accurate, it will be impossible to track down every one, or the media will find detractors-- even those who want to hurt or stop the move of God-- denying that it's true. This will discredit all of the healings and miracles and the revival itself. Next, you can predict a backlash from the ministry, which will assume that everyone's against them. Or they will say that any criticism at all is denying the power of God or, on a lower level, questioning the integrity of the ministry.

We saw this pattern, or a variation of it, in the coverage of the Brownsville Revival and in the Toronto Blessing. In those instances major coverage came from the secular media after one or two major media sources, such as The New York Times, signaled to the other media (which typically follow each other in their coverage) as if this story was OK to cover. The mainstream culture, and especially those with a secular humanist mindset, are not inclined to cover revivals. They don't get excited when there is good praise and worship or when people are exalting Jesus. To them it's an odd sideshow. There's a long history of them making fun of it, going back to the fictional character of Elmer Gantry who is Sinclair Lewis's embodiment of all huckster preachers.

I'm concerned when I hear references in Lakeland to the "healing revivals" of the 1940s and 1950s-- especially with A.A. Allen and William Branham. That's because those revivals did not really touch the mainstream of America and in those two instances the ministers fell into disrepute before they died.

The focus of any revival or ministry must be on Jesus and on changed lives, not on revival itself or on the ministries involved. I was glad to hear an emphasis on Jesus when I was in Lakeland. My spirit sensed that there was a genuine flow of the Spirit in the services.

However, criticisms are beginning to come about the revival—not so much from the secular media, but from leaders in the body of Christ who are unwilling to publicly criticize but who feel there are extremes (from their perspective) that could derail the revival.

After 49 days the revival is still vulnerable, almost like the tiny flame mentioned in Isaiah 42:3. How sad if that flame is snuffed out (as have been most revivals in the past) before it has the opportunity to grow into a raging fire.

I’ve been impressed with how open Stephen Strader—the pastor who invited Todd Bentley to come to Lakeland—and Bentley have been to those who encourage them to keep the revival on track.

A genuine revival must be more than lukewarm Christians flocking to meetings and getting excited once again about God touching their lives. It must change people's lives who then in turn change the culture around them. That is really the revival we need in America.

So let’s pray that this revival grows. Pray for the leaders who are under enormous pressure to minister seven days a week under the glare of national and international media, as well as critics—both those who want to destroy the revival as well as those who want the revival to stay on track so it can continute to grow.

Meanwhile, let us know of outbreaks of revival you know about so we can check them out and report on them.

43 Comments:

  • At May 22, 2008 7:05 PM , Blogger Carl said...

    Good thing we have all these leaders telling us not to get to excited about what God is doing.

     
  • At May 22, 2008 7:15 PM , Blogger Doyin said...

    A genuine revival and move of God is never determined by current attendance, or by comments and reviews in the press. A revival is only a revival or otherwise by the after-fruits or effects on the people and the community many years after.

     
  • At May 22, 2008 8:36 PM , Blogger Julie said...

    I sincerely feel that most 'sober and alert' Christians are not looking to criticize and reject the revival in Lakeland out of hand, but really do want discern whether it is of God and then if so, to see this "baby" revival mature.

    For that to happen, the most troubling issues surely must be addressed. For example, the reports of Bentley's angelic visitations -- 'angels' whose names and descriptions match those of demonic figures in other religions, among other things. For heaven's sake, somebody PLEASE address this with Todd!

    My great desire would be for some leaders who love Todd to come alongside and have some honest, transparent discussions with him and work through the Scriptural basis (or lack thereof) for some of the experiences he describes.

    If things are discussed and clarified and it is determined that error has crept in, for Todd to then humbly acknowledge it, repent, and make a public statement to that effect. This would go a long way toward dispelling rumors, resolving legitimate concerns, and reassuring those who have been watching things develop but have been unwilling as yet to commend this revival without these things being addressed.

    And finally, if we are to learn a lesson from the likes of William Branham: my understanding is that he was truly, phenomenally gifted for healing and words of knowledge but that at some point he began to stray into areas he was not gifted for like teaching, and did not heed the sound guidance and warnings of people close to him. Gordon Lindsay was his assistant for a number of years, I understand.

    Instead, Branham chose to heed flatterers and sycophants and eventually fell completely into serious deception and thus was sadly discredited at the end of his life.

    If some time was taken with Todd and his ministry team by mature leaders who love Bentley and whom Bentley respects to come alongside to give instruction and correction, Todd might realize that perhaps he is not called to teach. I've seen this happen many times - people trying to move outside their gifting and stumbling into error or imbalance.

    There is a greater accountability to those who presume to teach God's people. I do so wish that those who have great gifting in certain areas would be so very cautious not to stray into areas they are not fitted for, and instead reach out to others who might join their ministry or who they might recommend to fill those roles such as teaching.

    I long for the body of Christ to mature to the degree that each person discovers and walks confidently in their gift and calling, instead of this exasperating tendency to try to be all things to all people simply because you are gifted and are in a visible ministry.

    Humble dependency on one another and looking to Jesus Christ our head to guide and direct His body is the safest way to guard against such deception.

     
  • At May 23, 2008 12:12 AM , Blogger Dan-o said...

    Julie is right on the mark! If Todd is truly the humble, teachable man that we have heard that he is, then someone PLEASE COME ALONG AND HELP THIS MAN. If you truly love him, then help to fine-tune him. Do any of you Influencers really love Todd? Do you really love him? Then by golly, help straighten out his path. Quit tip-toeing around and address him brother-to-brother. Where are the "Pauls" that Todd so desperately needs? Someone needs to be a "Paul" and "oppose him to his face" (Galatians 2:11). Tell Todd to avoid any language that encourages people to deliberately seek angels. Tell him to publicly denounce any past teaching that promotes the seeking of angelic direction. Advise him to please be careful not to push people when you lay hands on them. Todd, watch out for showboating and hyping. That's what a brother does. Please leaders, stop being his critic and be his brother and bring light to his errors. That's what real godly men have done to me. I hated it, I was mad, but I loved them for it. Paul didn't sit around wringing his hands wondering, "Oh dear, do I have a deep enough relationship with Peter that he will be able to handle this amount of correction". That may be wisdom for most situations, but NOT this one. This Lakeland movement is booming, and you don't have time to take Todd on ten fishing trips before you can freely speak to him. This stuff needs to be straightened out yesterday! If you love Todd, or if you love God's people...Then be the shepherd.

     
  • At May 23, 2008 12:44 AM , Blogger Walking Barefoot said...

    Thank God for the humility of Todd and Stephen - Thank God for the
    endurance Physical and spiritual
    that the Holy Spirit has given them
    They just have gone for broke Todd could have been making much more money keeping his dates Rory and Wendy Alec and GodTV also are sacrificing to bring this to the world!! Yes We have the glorious Godfreys I have them in my city Western Michigan those who went down to Lakeland to get prayed for so they could start getting the praise and fame they always have desired. The Body of Christ is lacking discernment most cant tell the Holy Spirit and a real move from the fake and satan is not going to heal people and fill them with joy and cause them to love Jesus more and send them on the streets. I am also a Revival Historian and have talked to many Who knew William Branham and they all said the Presence of God was
    so thick They said He was a sweet innocent humble man and He never missed Yes He stepped out of his anointing and tried to teach When He was a prophet not a teacher and so strange doctrines came at the end Angels are sent as Ministering Spirits to help Us minister We work together with them and what a surprise they have names one criticism was Angels dont heal well what about the pool of Bethesda it says a angel stirred it I have had dealing with Angels and the names of the real and the fallen can be similiar
    and We are to test things and look at the fruits - Every past Revival has come with great offense and stumblingblocks and persecution

    My biggest criticism is the proud and unbroken some are Todds
    associates and interns - The Anointing cost something it is not cheap it cant be bought and character really needs to be part of this not just power

    As David Ravenhill wrote a book Surviving the Anointing -Given unbroken arrogant Men power is Dangerous and the tares are sent to destroy the wheat Todd needs to weed his team!!

    As for Todds teaching I have a
    scholarly background and for a Man
    who never Graduated 9th grade Todds teaching is amazing what He taught the other day on Healing was incredible all My learning
    I have had I will sit at Todds feet anytime as they said in Acts this Man has been with Jesus

    Next please pray for Todd many have been destroyed by the narcotic of fame as one who had been with Todd told Me before Lakeland ( The people either said He was the antichrist or the Messiah) Neither is healthy!!

    Todd is first and foremost are
    Brother -We dont worship family members

     
  • At May 23, 2008 2:51 AM , Blogger Reality Bible Ministries said...

    I am a pastor and published author and I have been in the ministry for over 30 years. When I was referred to what is happening Lakeland under the guidance of Todd Bentley, I was inspired to investigate further. What I have found out by viewing Todd’s testimonies on the web, plus his live feeds and also the historical accounts of what “God”, “Jesus” and some “angels” are doing in his life – I was left stone cold and with a sad sense of despair. I was a Satanist and occultist for the first 20 years of my life until I met and accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour. This happened when I was ‘sent’ to destroy a ministry and I found Christ in the warfare that followed. So when I speak about what Todd is doing, please realise that it is with extensive knowledge on which I write…I have also studied 43 religions.
    The first point of departure for me is to check my analysis against “…speaking against God’s anointed…”
    Todd is very eloquent in his verbal expletives and that is not something to be overwhelmed by. The so-called signs and wonders are truly evident and those do not fail under scrutiny. However, remember what Jesus tells us in Matt 24 that there will be many false prophets, and they will deceive the very elect; and they will show great signs and wonders (own paraphrasing). If we look at what Todd is doing and then compare his activities to those of TB Joshua and Kobus van Rensburg in Africa, then there is absolutely no difference in the ministry style or content. These men are also seeing a “revival” in their ministries.
    To cut a long story short…the deception is not in the end results (signs and wonders) but in the verbal and lifestyles of the so-called bringers of these revivals.
    When I watched and listened to Todd I got extremely angry as he is doing nothing short of practising witchcraft and sorcery. (Please refer to Deuteronomy 18:10-12) The fact that he regularly gets visited by angels -- specifically “Emma” (no female ref in the word of God to female angels) and also that Jesus and Todd have regular visits is alarming. The fact that Jesus appeared to Todd as a humble servant in basic robes etc, denies the victory that Christ achieved on and after the cross – look at Revelation 1: 11-20 and that is the Christ that I serve. Jesus will never go back to being a representative of humanity as He is now the King of Kings and Lord of lords. Satan however, always presents Jesus in a humanity form of humbleness and servanthood…
    Here are some points of interest:
    • Tod claims he had an encounter with angels and Jesus for three months continuously.
    • An angel assigned to an “area” came to one of Todd’s meetings and when Todd ran to meet the angel, he fell and had an out of body experience…then, he walked amongst the people in the spirit and saw their sicknesses. Heresy!
    • His tears at the expression of his so-called joy are false as they stop immediately he needs to share something new.
    • Todd claims Jesus showed him heaven, with bumble bees and butterflies, and rivers of oil – and this vision were projected out of Jesus’ body by a rainbow.
    • When Todd prays for people he pushes them rather than letting the true anointing flow – this is sadly an act of most “Charismatic” and “Pentecostal” preachers of today.
    • Todd establishes “Dominion” (Occult practise) in all the places he preaches at.
    • Todd asks God to show the people the spirit realm…and yet according to the word, this is not God’s desire.
    • Todd claims he was translated in the spirit and he flew over Sydney harbour…as he was instructed by Jesus to hand a briefcase to a pastor in Australia – and yet he never found the pastor…does God fail in anything He does? Todd is in fact practising astral projection, which is demonic!!
    • Todd claims he was to give this pastor in Australia “…my mantle of healing…” – isn’t it Jesus who does the healing??
    • Todd lays hands and says words like, Waah, Bam Bam, whoosh, Blah, Blah, etc -- and then the people fall over. The scripture is very explicit in this by telling us to lay hands, nothing else is needed. In SA there is a pastor that blows on people’s stomachs and only when he does that do they fall over – this is demonic as this is practised in satanic and pagan circles.
    • Todd claims that visits people in their dreams – this is a voodoo practise done by shamans and witch doctors – and something I did in the occult.
    • Todd has a list of names of people that God wants to heal and he claims God gave him the list the night before the meeting. Then when he reads the names out – some of the people are not even there – do you think God knows the future?? What a mockery of our awesome God!
    • When he prayed for a young man, the man did not fall so Todd spoke to the young man and the audience all the time pushing the young man in the stomach rather hard to induce a fall? Then he tells the audience that he is nearly falling under the power – which is telling the young man that he is not receiving – this is abuse! The Holy Spirit is a gentleman and will never knock you over if you do not desire it!
    • Todd asks people what their sickness is and then when they tell him, he claims that is right because God showed him…if God shows you something you do not need to verify it?
    • He says that God is showing him a man whose wife is called Rosa to come forward for prayer…and yet no-one comes forward…again a mockery, because if God wants you to come forward, He will prompt you from within!!!
    • Todd claims that he went out in the spirit (again occult practice) and visited a little girl who had been locked in a cellar and abused. He claims Jesus told him that He was giving Todd a key to set five ladies free from previous abuse – Todd then QUESTIONS Jesus by asking “Are you sure?” Man-oh-man, does Todd think we are stupid and that Jesus makes mistakes? Then when he calls the five ladies forward – many more came forward and Todd did not know which of the five God wanted healed…hmm.
    • Todd claims that Jesus took him into a field of praise and then he and Jesus walked in the field together – show me this in the word firstly, and secondly how can a human share in the praise of God?
    • In the hall while Todd is preaching there are people manifesting in the demonic, and yet it is accepted as a “move of God” – I wonder which ‘god’ this is?
    There is just too much to write in this column – the word tells us that you will know them by their fruits…let us see what these fruits are because to date they are sadly lacking and extremely false in their presentation.
    Remember that the word of God tells us that “…in the last days people will heap to themselves teachers that will teach them what they want to hear – for they have itchy ears…”
    The members of our ministry will pray for Todd and ask that God protects the innocent.

     
  • At May 23, 2008 3:28 AM , Blogger Julie said...

    Dan-o, you are exactly right, you said it better than I could! Why do we either exalt a man and his gifts without comment, guidance, or discernment, OR, when his extremes get out of control and his crashes and burns, we throw him on the trash heap! This is the way the world treats its 'celebrities'.

    If we were truly acting as intimately interconnected parts of the same wholesome body of Christ, we would never exalt one part as more special than another, i.e. treat him as a celebrity. In my opinion, this lack of intimate, transparent connectedness is what allowed the whole situation with Paul Cain and other famed preachers, prophets and healers to operate in sin undiscerned until they collapsed in disgrace. Put them on a jet and fly around the world reading everyone's mail, but if he or she is not truly connected by love and accountability to a local fellowship of mature believers, they are set up for a fall already.

    Read the wonderful passage in 1 Cor. 12. Here's part of it:
    1 Cor:18, 22-25 -
    "But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body just as He desired...On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our unseemly members come to have more abundant seemliness, whereas our seemly members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, that there should be no division in the body but that the members should have the same care for one another."

    Todd does not need 'more abundant honor' - if he is truly loved by the other leaders who have the connection to him to speak into his life, then get to it! Don't let yet another potential move of God go down in flames because of lack of true relationship to help another believer grow in grace and sound doctrine. Who knows what a true move of God might look like if it actually matured into something glorious and wasn't sabotaged by our own excitement or pride or immaturity?

     
  • At May 23, 2008 4:39 AM , Blogger Bowerman said...

    So you liked when Bob Jones taught that evil portals spin counterclockwise and good portals spin clockwise and that everyone around the portal vibrates in tune and that he can tell this is good because everything is spinning clockwise which heals?

    Shame he thinks it's good to borrow his teachings from the New Age movement, who love to talk about portals, rather than the Bible, which makes no mention of portals.

    Guess you didn't notice that huh?

     
  • At May 23, 2008 4:48 AM , Blogger Rick Leland said...

    Steve thanks for a level headed, Holy Spirit influenced view.

    We are going to need some voices like yours to provide clarity through some murk.

    There will always be people who link any work of God to satan. And he will always be there.

    But come on "reality Bible ministries" you're saying satan has more power than God. And that satan has deception powers beyond the Holy Spirit's truth power.

    So Todd's obviously trying to follow Jesus. He loves Jesus. Now you're saying satan has so much power he'll overtake Todd (without him knowing) and have his way with him.

    No way.

    God's much more powerful. He's going to fight for him. He's going to be woeing and guiding his blood bought son Todd.

    He might even send an angel.

    Give God some credit. God is still more powerful than...than anything.

     
  • At May 23, 2008 5:45 AM , Blogger SheepTrax said...

    Have you ever listened to what Todd teaches? He is a New Ager. I used to do TM before I got saved and I know those spirits from bitter experience. This whole thing smacks of the early Mormon "revival" complete with orbs of lights, bizarre manifestations, and angels of dubious origin and intent.

    Saints, have nothing to do with anyone who claims to have the angel of William Branham. Branham's angel told him he was the last prophet and now we have new prophets with the same angel? It would be great if these pesky angels would make up their minds.

    Somebody flush. Please.

     
  • At May 23, 2008 7:26 AM , Blogger ken said...

    Wow, what an interesting thread of comments!
    I have spent 4 days in the Lakeland revival and had a wonderfull time. The hunger for God and the presence of the Holy Spirit are just amazing. I am greatly encouraged, and will never be the same. I also believe that some are being healed.
    That being said, I do appreciate people questioning this to some degree. "Beloved, don't believe every spirit, but test the spirits .." I John 4:1. People have to be held accountable - for their own good and everyone else's. What is really interesting is the reaction this stuff brings - it's exactley that which was in the bible towards Jesus' ministry. Some believed, some mocked, some even called Jesus demon possesed. Be carefull dismissing folks just because they say "angel this, angel that". Take out the dreams, visions and angels pieces of your Bible and you don't have much left. And don't forget what the prophet Joel declared ...
    "It will come about after this That I will POUR OUT MY SPIRIT on all mankind; And your sons and daughters will prophesy, Your old men will DREAM DREAMS, Your young men will SEE VISIONS" Joel 2:28.
    God bless you guys. Thanks for reading.

     
  • At May 23, 2008 7:28 AM , Blogger Reality Bible Ministries said...

    Hello Rick, On the point of Satan being more powerful than God - I agree with you most definately. Our Lord's heel will bruise Satan's head. However, we need to look a little deeper into free will; number one, and number two; in Matt why does God/Jesus tell them to depart who healed in His name, who prophesied in His name, and who cast out devils in His name...you seem to have forgotten that one. Also Jesus Himself tells us that many will come in His name and sow deceit - now are you saying that Jesus was wrong?

    If I may ask a question...if satan himself preaches the word of God without addind or taking away from it - will God still respond and honour His word...of course He will, because the annointing is on the word and not the preacher. WHOEVER preaches the unadulterated word of God will have God's annointing - because Jesus tells us that Heaven and Hell will pass away but His word will never pass away.

    Another question - how can a non-Christian (not born again) cast out demons? They have to leave because of the NAME, not because of the person -- the annointing is on the name.

    God's annointing is on the word and He will NEVER let His word return VOID - no matter who preaches it!

    The most important fact we need to look at here is that a false prophet is someone who comes under the guise of the real thing - otherwise they would not be false prophets would they?

    Here are three more sites you need to venture onto with an open mind:

    http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/todd-bentleys-and-prophet-bob-jones-angel-emma/

    http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/lying-signs-and-wonders-gold-dust-and-jewels/

    http://discerningtheworld.wordpress.com/

    By the way - the last site is part of our ministry so you will see we are not just shooting in the dark but do effective research before venturing out...I trust you will do the same and not be one of the decieved.

    God tells us that if we lack wisdom then we are to ask Him for it and He will give it to us liberally - so I pray that for you and me. The word also tells us to study to show ourselves approved...?

    Psalm 91 over you and yours.

     
  • At May 23, 2008 7:55 AM , Blogger Radiant Worship said...

    Amazing how the power of God stirs up the "religious." The power of God got Jesus crucified! Visions and encounters are to be expected in the end times! We need to pray for these men to continue in humility and accountability to the body of Christ. Let's side with the spirit of love.

    Also, we can't judge a revival by how it makes us "feel" , good or bad. We are saying then, that WE are the source of discerning truth. The Pharisee's could not discern truth when it was standing right in front of them, though they knew the scriptures well. We must look at the fruit and know the Holy Spirit ourselves! His church will be mature and glorious! Blessings! - Richy

     
  • At May 23, 2008 8:13 AM , Blogger Julie said...

    Ken, I, too, really long for what you say you experienced at Lakeland. And you are right, many things are said in the Word of God about prophecy, angels, and other heavenly experiences. There are many things that are mysterious and that we may not understand, of that there can be no doubt.

    All 'we' - those of us offering some questions for consideration - are saying is, please do look to the Word for guidance and discernment of these supernatural experiences.

    There have been so many things said and described by Todd that seem questionable and we're only saying, if you love this man - whom many say is sweet, humble and teachable - then it should be an act of love and relationship to help him discern and perhaps purify himself of anything that might be "off". This kind of maturing would only help this outpouring, not hinder it.

    So rarely has any revival or outpouring of the Holy Spirit endured past a few years simply for this reason. There was not on-going discernment and grounding in the Word and accountability, etc. And that truly is a shame.

    You know, people talk and talk about us being the 'Bride of Christ." (Not in these threads, but generally.) However, Jesus will not come for a child bride; for Jesus to take us as His bride now would be perversion. We are NOT the bride of Christ now, but will become that bride at the marriage supper of the Lamb.

    What we are NOW is His BODY - the beautiful body of Christ. He is our head and we are connected and interconnected by many and various parts, each doing its work, building itself up in love.

    What I'm getting at is that Jesus WILL have a mature Bride! But this is part of the process, the growth and maturity - and the main way we grow is through our relationships with each other.

    People are God's Plan A, not Plan B. He doesn't wave His magic wand and sprinkle fairy dust on us to make growth happen. Yes, there are healings and miracles and that is definitely part of His program.

    But Plan A for us to grow is RELATIONSHIP. And that is what Todd needs, as we all do. Someone help this dear man grow, so the revival will grow and mature, and not self-destruct as so many have in
    the past.

     
  • At May 23, 2008 9:30 AM , Blogger Pastor Ellery Aguayo said...

    When will we we draw the line when it comes to bad doctrine and weird theology? You admit some of your friends warned you of Bob Jones's theology but 'sensed nothing wrong in [your] spirit'.
    Since when is 'sensing' in our spirit a test of deceiving spirits?

    I thought the word and the spirit must agree?

     
  • At May 23, 2008 10:27 AM , Blogger rivkatoy said...

    There is only one thing to say to all of these bloggers....As in John 10:27, My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and as in Matthew 9:34 (after Jesus had raised a girl from the dead, healed blind eyes and cast out demons) But the Pharisees were saying, "He casts out the demons by the ruler of the demons."
    Jesus was ridiculed because he came to Earth as a 'man', therefore the works He did were discredited. Todd can't help acting like a man because he IS one! I'm sure he knows it better than anyone else does!

     
  • At May 23, 2008 1:18 PM , Blogger Kyle said...

    Great word Steve, great to get your perspective on how the media hurts the move of God and their perspectives of this stuff
    thanks for your work with Charisma

    THank you GOD TV for being a vessel for this revival to hit the nations

    thank you Todd for your gift of faith and perseverence!

    God bless

     
  • At May 23, 2008 2:33 PM , Blogger Tom Winfield said...

    Very good column, Steve. You put things in great perspective. I attended a John and Carol Arnott (Toronto Blessing) meeting this morning, was touched by the Holy Spirit, and, as far as I am concerned, it brought revival--to me. We can get lost in defining a Holy Spirit revival, losing sight of the wonderful value of being touched by the Spirit in a tangible way--something which you addressd. As far as the Lakeland revival touching the world, or touching society, it already has. Revival sparks are flying and starting fires all over the place, in the USA and overseas. Sure, the Wales Revival spread to America and 20 million people were saved; sure the Jonathan Edwards revival in the 1700s resulted in so many converts that it turned a darkening national situation the other way. But as for me, I will take Brownsville or Arnott meetings wherever I can find them. I personally need it. There is absolutely nothing like being touched by the warm, penetrating, loving touch of the Spirit of God. Just nothing at all...

     
  • At May 23, 2008 3:14 PM , Blogger Jon Rising said...

    An angel named Emma ... pushing old ladies down ... I think I'll stay home.

     
  • At May 23, 2008 4:04 PM , Blogger RealityCheck said...

    This is as far from a revival as I can possibly imagine. How can Christians continue to make the same mistakes, time after time. It was not long ago that many churches got hoodwinked by the so called "Toronto Blessing"...which was hardly a blessing. It ended up dividing churches, ruining marriages, and nearly collapsed one denomination that bought into it, until it was repudiated as being false.

    Read the Word...a revival brings people to Christ, and changes lives...all for the Lord's glory. It is not about the preacher, his whacko antics, or even healings or miracles(which happen every day when Jesus touches people...not just in a revival when a person is touching them...or punching as this guy does. Its insane!)

    Most of the "revival preachers" that people have mentioned here have been false prophets, and have used occultic and demonic powers to do their so called miracles. Guys like William Branham, Paul Cain(a William Branham wanna-be), Bob Jones, and now this Todd guy(another William Branham wanna-be...and Todd even claims to have Branham's angel? Yeah, really Biblical...not!).

    Paul Cain was acclaimed to have powerful "clairvoyant powers" by Christian leaders. Really? So "clairvoyance is a gift of the Holy Spirit now, rather than a demonic empowerment and deception? Paul Cain later revealed that he had been living in deep sin with alcoholism and homosexuality for many years, even while using his so-called gifts! Wake up Church! Paul Cain was a false prophet! The Lord called us to use discernment, and to reject false prophets. Jesus certainly used discernment frequently, and he did not just swallow any junk that came along with a magic Christian buzzword attached to it, like revival, miracle, or word of knowledge. The words may be real, but the use of them by alcoholic homosexuals masquerading as super gifted prophets is not.

    Paul Cain was later booted out of the fellowship he was a part of, after refusing to submit to discipline and potential restoration of his Christian life and sanctification. This guy is about as far out into a non-Christian life as one can possibly ever get, yet he is back again preying upon undiscerning churches, spinning his yarns, using Christian mumbo-jumbo to seduce naive Christians and naive Christian leaders, and using his clairvoyant and demonic powers again.

    Steve Strang, please find some discernment. You are an influencer in the body of Christ as a function of being a media and publishing company. Please be part of the solution to help the Church get back into intimate relationship with Jesus, so that He may move through His Body in a glorifying manner. Sensationalism, circus acts, punching people, pushing them over, and these antics have absolutely nothing to do with a revival or the work of God, and it is utterly immature and devastating to put that upon the Body. If we want to move in healing and miracle power for God's glory, then lets follow the Word, and not every New Age and demonic wind that comes along. Its a very sad commentary on the depth of the spiritual growth in the Church in our country.

     
  • At May 24, 2008 9:45 AM , Blogger eugenio said...

    Pointing out errors is part of the ministry. Col 2:18 should be read and followed. Tearing down the church with distainful words is not to be. An imperfect church happens when people enter the perfect. Most of the leaders in this move come across as proud and all knowing.
    I see the good, bad and the ugly and the world does also! I am an evangelist, and in ministry from 30 years.
    I found that it is the "offense of the Cross", that causes a person to repent and turn to God.

     
  • At May 25, 2008 5:22 PM , Blogger Suzanne said...

    Though I strongly believe that the Lord uses the revivals, because He has mercy on the people... I do believe we have to be careful not to follow every "wind of doctrine." Not to say the Lakeland Revival is or is not, we just must be careful. But as for revival... all prophets in Scripture preached "repentance." If repentance is being preached, then it is a true revival. If not, it's just something G-d is using because of His mercy and grace. If the Anti-Christ used the same formulas and had a "showy" revival and told lots of good stories, would the Christians (elect) be deceived and follow him? That's why there must be repentance, not just miracles. Suzanne, Remnant Ministries, Conroe, TX

     
  • At May 25, 2008 5:23 PM , Blogger Suzanne said...

    Though I strongly believe that the Lord uses the revivals, because He has mercy on the people... I do believe we have to be careful not to follow every "wind of doctrine." Not to say the Lakeland Revival is or is not, we just must be careful. But as for revival... all prophets in Scripture preached "repentance." If repentance is being preached, then it is a true revival. If not, it's just something G-d is using because of His mercy and grace. If the Anti-Christ used the same formulas and had a "showy" revival and told lots of good stories, would the Christians (elect) be deceived and follow him? That's why there must be repentance, not just miracles. Suzanne, Remnant Ministries, Conroe, TX

     
  • At May 26, 2008 8:59 PM , Blogger Ministries in Asia said...

    23 years ago we have an outpouring in my local church for a season of a few weeks. This Malaysian congregation consist of 50 people. I was a college student then and was born again 2 years earlier.

    At that time the church was planted for just 2 years in a 95% Muslim populated area. My pastor was 24 and he has just graduated from Bible School.

    We met for prayer every Wednesday evening and it seem at that season we have consistent and regular visitation from angels. It came to a stage, I mentioned to others that, "If you want to meet with angels, come and join the prayer meeting." It was also mentioned by other participants.

    My wise pastor actually has to remind the people that we are in church to meet and glorify Jesus. From there I learned an invaluable lesson. We are to meet Jesus, love and serve Jesus, direct people to Jesus and be Jesus centric. The transformation and fruits of repentance matters alot.

    It is up to the wise leadership to chart and direct the course of the 'revival', stay humble and have the checks and balances.

    With a steady hand the church I grown up in still has the miraculous and sign and wonders regularly. The people has grown in their lives and the congregation size has steadily moved up to 1,600.

     
  • At May 27, 2008 1:52 PM , Blogger Bonofied1 said...

    A revival is mankinds acknowledgement of the Lordship of Jesus Christ. It is reverent and holy fear of an Almighty, All powerful God. The One has the power to destroy both body and soul in hell. Revival isn't hype, nor is it about US getting what we want, it is our total submission, conforming to what God expects of us, His creation. True revival brings about repentance, changed hearts and changed lives.

    God is not in the writhing on the floor, God is not in the screaming, that is ridiculous, silly and uncalled for. Where is the glory in that? Will mankind continue to mock God's mercy and grace?

    Todd Bentley makes the statement on one of his videos that glory stands for wealth, riches, power, etc...which if you looked up the original language you would find that glory is the true representation of the One sent. Do glory is a true representation of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

    All one has to do is YouTube Mr. Bentley and you'll come up with all sorts of videos that speaks of what his ministry is about.

     
  • At May 28, 2008 8:47 AM , Blogger reies7 said...

    I've recently attended the Lakeland outpouring and believe God will use whoever and whatever for His divine purposes, if He can use a donkey He can use a tattooed, biker, ex-drug addict to heal the sick and lead hundred's if not thousand to the salvation message of Jesus Christ.

    The altar calls that were made while I was there consisted of hundred's being saved on any given night and now there going into the streets, convalescent homes etc. praying for people and leading them to the Lord.

    I ask all of the critics when's the last time that you led someone to the Lord, sinner's prayer and all, maybe prayed for someone and seen them healed?

    I ask where is the fruit of the Spirit that the apostle Paul wrote of in Galatians 5:22,23.?

    Or are we truly of the flesh devouring one another and being bitter and accusing who are we truly serving, hear what is being said out of the heart in print and in word? Jesus said "we will know them by their fruits. What then is the fruit. And I'm talking about the heart is it of stone or is it of flesh, full of compassion, honor, love and encouragement, or one of bitterness, faultfinding and complaining and jealousy, I ask what is raging in your soul "son of man"?

    Reies7

     
  • At May 28, 2008 1:20 PM , Blogger bbeingphilled said...

    HERESY HUNTERS INSTITUTE, INC.




    Dear brother,


    Thank you for sending us the questionable document. We are always glad to examine any teaching materials that may adversely affect the Church. We do think that this material is dangerous and certainly want to warn the Body of Christ concerning its subtle false doctrines. Our analysis is as follows:


    The document:


    The Lord is my Shepherd; I shall not want.
    He makes me to lie down in green pastures; He leads me beside the still waters.
    He restores my soul; He leads me in the paths of righteousness for His name’s sake.
    Yes, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; For You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.
    You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; You anoint my head with oil; My cup runs over.
    Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life; and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.


    We weren’t given the name of the author of this document, but it is quite clear that is part of the contemporary, humanistic “gospel” of self.
    The first thing we would point out is that this is a “positive confession.” Our research shows that this idea was never heard of in the Church before the metaphysical cults introduced it in the late 19th century. This author has obviously been influenced by these cults.
    Secondly, note the “affirmation” that he will not want. This is clearly that “gospel of greed” – the prosperity gospel. Whoever wrote this probably is a follower of these dreadful prosperity preachers. Sorry you couldn’t come up with the author so we could do a background check on him or her. Even without the author’s name, it’s still pretty clear who influenced this individual.
    Then the author affirms himself to be perfectly led by the Lord. This is the dangerous delusion of elitism. Many of these groups feel they are the only true Christians. They are the only ones who really represent the name of the Lord. You can see the tremendous spiritual pride lurking behind this, I’m sure.
    Our author tells us that he walks through the shadow of death. Obvious Christian Science influence here. Denying the reality of matter and evil. This is indeed a pernicious error. This is also practiced by denying the reality of sickness. Sickness, evil and death are mere illusions. Very dangerous!
    Notice the references to “green pastures” and “still waters.” The cults always resort to metaphoric symbols and encourage their victims to visualize. This, of course, opens their minds up to demonic influence. Note also that a life of ease and blessing is pictured, very appealing to the flesh. Seldom do these people ever talk about taking up our cross and following Jesus.
    The author now mentions restoring the soul. We see two possible references to dangerous teachings here. Firstly, the teaching of restoration. This is false teaching that suggests that the Church isn’t all God wants it to be. Of course, that is unacceptable. We have the Bible; we need nothing beyond the Scriptures. And then secondly, there could be a suggestion of the teaching of inner healing. We have a paper on this error available if you should so desire.
    I will fear no evil; for you are with me. Notice the big “I.” Bold, arrogant, egotistical statements like this are common among these groups. Totally devoid of humility. I think you can see the obvious, humanistic bent.
    Your rod and your staff, they comfort me. Clearly the error of the authority of the believer is being implied here. Taking the place of God and assuming that mere sinful men can actually wield the rod of God. To say this is presumptuous is mild. This is the “little gods” error. These false teachers never have a due regard for the sovereignty of God.
    You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. The archangel Michael did not dare to bring an accusation against Satan, but these types of teachers boldly mock the Devil. This suggests an unhealthy preoccupation with “spiritual warfare.”
    You anoint my head with oil. The height of arrogance. So many today claim they are the anointed of the Lord and no one should question their teachings and activities. I’m sure this author, whoever he is, considers himself to be one of God’s “special” anointed ones.
    My cup runs over. Another allusion to prosperity. A “positive confession” of abundance. Decidedly derived from Unity or one of the other metaphysical cults.
    Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life. No suffering, no trials, no difficulties in life! This is not the Bible gospel. These teachers hold out the promise of problem-free living and then bilk those who listen to them of their finances to support their extravagant life-styles. What a mockery of the cross.
    I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever. Actually this type of teaching doesn’t belong in the Church at all. This gospel of greed, positive confession and trouble-free living certainly isn’t based on the Bible.


    Thank you for sending us this example of heretical teaching. We advise you to steer clear of this teacher. Although it may have a veneer of Biblical sounding ideas, it is clearly imported from metaphysical and New Age teachings.

     
  • At May 28, 2008 4:25 PM , Blogger LoveroftheWord said...

    This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

     
  • At May 28, 2008 4:33 PM , Blogger LoveroftheWord said...

    This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

     
  • At May 28, 2008 4:33 PM , Blogger LoveroftheWord said...

    This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

     
  • At May 28, 2008 4:36 PM , Blogger LoveroftheWord said...

    This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

     
  • At May 30, 2008 12:37 AM , Blogger famechaser said...

    Todd is hungry and radical.
    For the first several years as a Christian, Todd was so ridiculously hungry for Jesus. This explains why God has give Todd unique and special gifts that few believers see.

    I love that God is using a tattooed biker with a Grade 10 education to usher in a healing outpouring.

    MORE MORE MORE MORE!!!!

    Lord, give Todd the strength to resist the religious and unbelieving critics...

     
  • At May 30, 2008 12:57 AM , Blogger Martin Jack said...

    I've been following the Lakeland revival on God TV, and I have a number of concerns. Not really about Todd Bentley's appearance or personality, but just about the the way the Holy Spirit is being sought after.

    I have problems with the whole "Come get some!" attitude to the Holy Spirit. For me, it shows a lack of reverence, as if the Holy Spirit were some new fix or drug for people to shoot up. So I wonder how much of the wisdom that comes from the Holy Spirit is being sought for. As Jesus said, the spirit will guide you into all truth (John 16: 12). And when I hear misreadings of Bible passages
    from Todd, along with teaching bordering on 'name it and claim it' theology, I wonder how much of that truth is there.

    Martin

     
  • At May 30, 2008 2:23 PM , Blogger yesandamen said...

    Oh, all of this discussion makes my head spin. I think so many of us believers in the USA want a real, authentic, relationship with God and a true expression of that in how we live and how we worship. We want more of God. I want more of God. If we sincerely pray and ask for God in our lives and no spirit other than the Holy Spirit, what would God's response be? Would he give us a scorpion?
    So many people have been touched by the outpouring. Lives have been changed, people healed. That's the fruit. Yes, people are flawed. We all are. Would we want to be judged by our past? Would every one else be one hundred percent in agreement with our doctrine? My goodness, we can't even meet together with the various denominations in our city because of our differences. How can we expect everyone to agree with Todd Bentley, or expect that he would be on target all the time. He is a man. Human. Flawed. Yet I believe he sincerely wants God to move in this country and through all the people.
    Let's pray for Todd. Pray that God moves again in our country, in our world. We NEED God so desperately. We need to change too. Pray that this grows and matures. And if things fizzle, like they did in all past revivals, that doesn't mean it was not God. God healed and touched lives through all of the past revivals. He works through flawed vessels because that's all He has to work with. Or are you qualified to cast the first stone?

     
  • At June 2, 2008 7:27 AM , Blogger Strang Webmaster said...

    While we sincerely appreciate comments concerning each post, we ask that you refrain from such comments that are character defamation, abrasive, and nasty exchanges. We encourage an honest discussion that is helpful and upbuilding while refraining from what would be devouring one another or causing division in the body of Christ. Thank you for participating and continuing to engage in a healthy dialogue of what God is doing around the world.

     
  • At June 2, 2008 10:13 AM , Blogger Bonofied1 said...

    I have been reminded of, and I think its in the book of Job, where God had a mighty wind go by, but He (God) wasn't in the wind, then there was an mighty earthquake, but God wasn't in that earthquake either. Several mighty & powerful things happened during the time this man of God waited for Him to pass by and for each one that would have been considered mighty and powerful and assumedly indicative of a mighty and powerful God, yet God was not "IN" any of those things, it was only the still small whisper that God was in. Nothing showy, nothing "majestic", nothing flashy, nothing worth capturing anyone's attention...a whisper, a quite and gentle whisper, that was the very thing God inhabited.

    So, one, while considering the "Florida Outpouring" must take into account these very things. God is a God who does NOT change, so.... Is God in the jerking, the moaning, the groaning, the writhing, the screaming, the kicking, the kneeing, the punching, the violent shaking, etc? Or are those outward signs what "WE" assume a mighty and powerful God will show up in? Are "WE" looking for a "Miracle" or are we looking for the One who can work miracles?

     
  • At June 3, 2008 5:48 AM , Blogger kate1234 said...

    I have the same question I've had from the very beginning... why is this "revival"? How is this any different than what supposedly happens every Sunday and Wednesday night at our local Pentacostal churches? Were all the people falling down at those churches faking it? I visited many of those churches, saw "Miracle Mondays" and "Revival Sundays" where the sick were supposedly healed; saw every person in line fall down when touched or blown upon; saw people jerk and shake and vibrate... saw many, many things... just like what I'm seeing in Lakeland..... why is **THIS** a REAL revival? Were all those other pastors/churches faking it? Other than super-hype... and the coincidental chat room at the Lakeland church and broadcast (all over the world) of "REVIVAL" by Patricia King.... what's the difference???

     
  • At June 3, 2008 7:07 PM , Blogger Ragpicker said...

    The move of God....what a joy to hear of all the great things that are happening in Lakeland and other places, I have been so blessed..there is one thing that I like to see this time, in this move and that is to see ministers like Todd Bently travel from place to place and not just have the people take the inpartation back to there churc, like in the book of Acts many times the apostles
    went from house to house (churches)them selves and where ever THEY went there went the power of God WITH THEM, it would be great to see Todd's ministry take that anionting Themselves to the people, I beleave it will really spread fast and mor cities will be moved...

     
  • At June 8, 2008 4:15 PM , Blogger David Fritsche said...

    A minister friend recently what I thought about the Florida revival. Here was my answer:

    I’ve been watching him on our satellite TV. Some people from the church here went down and are all excited. Their comments were:
    • This is for real
    • This is a new thing
    • This has never happened before – it is God’s new thing
    • This is what we should be doing
    • We’re going to plug into this and bring it to Reno
    • Etc.

    Forgive the old cynical side of me, but I’ve been around a while – possibly too long! (Grin)

    I remember William Branham, Oral Roberts, Ernest Angley, Paul Cain, Kathryn Kuhlman, Aimee, Charles Price, Azusa St., A. Earl Lee, and a host of others that came in the 1948 era. There was North Battleford, Canada and all of the people that came out of that camp and A. Earl and the host of people that came out of that, including Dave Shock, George Evans, Leonard Fox and the later development of Revival Fellowship, and then the Charismatic Renewal and all of the stars of that new era, and more recently, Airport Christian Fellowship in Canada, and the whole movement coming out of that, and not to forget Vineyard…..

    There is a rich history of revival in my life time, and before. I remember my dad talking about those people of his past and the Apostolic Movement before Aimee and those of the early 1900’s. All of that to say this: This is not a new thing. God has had a presence on this planet through people since time began. It has taken different shapes and different dimensions and it has happened in different places, but the significant factor in them all is the source: The Master of the universe.

    The problem I have is that God seems to choose to use people who are not always cool…. Whither they are an unattractive tattooed biker dude in Florida or and alcoholic paranoid (A. A. Allen), God does not seem to measure by my standards. I suppose He could even use Barak Obama – but that I would probably categorize as a satanic anointing! (grin). Looking back, I not only see the hand of God but the taint of humanity and of failure. Branham went off into all kinds of error, possibly because of his lack of any objective measures in his life – he could neither read nor write. A. A. Allen was a confirmed alcoholic and finally died of related causes… and the list goes on of sexual failure, doctrinal craziness and financial ruin.

    What that does not mean is that they were phonies or that God was not involved. What it means is that not all success is because of divine anointing. Some of it is the human side of out need for heroes and our willingness to check in our brain to follow the personality and style of those who are being used by God. Some of it is substance – God is really doing it. Some of it is style – People are really involved with their personality and the promotion of the thing that takes on a life bigger than its own. Whither it is a rock star or an evangelist, the human side of those dynamics are the same – people get caught up in it and follow and try to replicate. That is not the substance, it is the style.

    I was watching this young man in Florida the other day and watched him do and say things that I had heard from some of the greats of the past. Wrong? Not at all, simply style. The problem I see is with those who went and came home and started doing the same things and saying the same words. Next they will be at the tattoo parlor getting an anointing from the tattoo… (Grin)

    My point is, you don’t get the substance by copying the style. I used to hate to see my pastor go away to a convention knowing that he would come home and change everything again, and start doing different things under the premise that by altering one’s personality and style, God would move. I concluded long ago, that style is not wrong, but it is not substance and will never produce the presence of God.

    The longer we move on in history the more I wonder if we will ever really grasp the wonder of the glory of God. We tend to go off in search of a God who is missing to find the style of someone who has been found by God. Note, we do not find Him, He finds us. He acquires us for His purpose, if we are simply relying upon His omniscience and grace. If I have understood anything from my sabbatical these last several years it is that the God of creation is still present in the everyday fabric of life and is available to us all. Possibly it is time for a new reformation in which a new Luther cries out against the priesthood and intermediaries that we erect and once again instructs us in the priesthood of the believer.

    God is not in Florida. Todd Bentley is in Florida. God is in Todd Bentley. God is also in each one of us – the same unlimited, creator God of all time. He moves through us, each of us, as he has created us. The inadequacies that we see about ourselves is an illusion. God created us to be who we are and is there to use that “us” for His glory. To attempt to replicate someone else’s style and ministry is to discredit the perfect creative purpose of God in creating us. God did not make a mistake in creating you and He has used you mightily and will continue to do so.

    I met a find young Mormon fellow when I worked for a while in construction. He was determined that I should become a Mormon, and kept after me to come with him to church, or is it stake, or steak! (Depends on whither you are hungry or not I suppose). Then he gave me a CD with “The Doctrines and Covenants” on it. I agreed to listen and I did. When I gave it back to him we sat and talked for several hours. I explained that I had read it before, because my grandfather was a Mormon Bishop and my mother was raised Mormon, so I was familiar with their belief system. I told him that I had no problem with the claim of Joseph Smith that he had spiritual experiences, had been visited by an angel and had talked with God. Then I recounted some of my own experiences in my youth and said, “The difference between Joseph Smith and myself is that he thought that since he had heard from God he should start his own religion. I decided that since God would visit me, so also should everyone open to their own visitation. It is the interpretation of those experiences that error enters.

    He was dumbstruck. He started to talk several times and then just rose, said, “You really do know God don’t you?” and walked away. I offered to talk further several times, but I knew he was trapped. If he talked to me more he would have to release his security in Mormonism and that he was unwilling to do. The point is, God does reveal Himself and anoint us, each and every one to the calling and purpose that is ours.

    So, you asked…

    What do I think? I think God is using Todd, even though I probably would not if I were God, but then He didn’t ask me. I would use a cool guy in a suit and tie. Am I going to Florida to check it out and try to get some of it? Na, I don’t think so. Probably more than ever before in my life, I know that God is real and that He is here, with me, in all of His glory and with amply grace to do in me, what He has called me to.

    Pastor Dave Fritsche

     
  • At July 3, 2008 3:02 PM , Blogger Jessica said...

    Ummm....anyone who watches some of the footage on the internet of these revivals should be appalled. I simply do not believe anyone who is under the power of the Holy Spirit will punch someone in the stomach to heal them. This is just one example of many outrageous things that are happening. In fact, sometimes, Todd Bentley seems as if he is possessed by an evil spirit, by his very strange and cackling laugh, his seizure like movements on the ground, and his violent means of 'healing.'

    I am a twenty something Pentecotsal who is amazed that people jump on this bandwagon and label it 'revival.' The Holy Spirit is not manufactured by loud music, screaming evangelists, and violence. He does his work on his own will for a hungry people who want more of the Lord.

    Lastly, I would like to say that revival is not defined by manifestations, but by a transformation of the heart.

     
  • At July 4, 2008 8:19 AM , Blogger Tom Winfield said...

    Jessica, loved what you had to say as a twenty-something Pentecostal. I am 72. So good to see a young person with discernment. I am a veteran of several "Holy Ghost Revivals"--Lakeland No. 1 with Rodney Howard-Brown, 1993; Brownsville, 1996; and John and Carol Arnott meetings at Calvary Assembly of Winter Park, Fl, 2008. You see things at these revivals that go beyond the normal Pentecostal-Charismatic services, and, in fact, you need to, else why would a Pentecostal go? But on the whole, the spirit of the leader and what he or she says and does is very important. When the Holy Spirit tells the leader to punch someone in the stomach to heal them, kick an old lady in the face to hearl her, body slam a guy to heal him, leg drop a pastor to heal him, we need to stand up and shout "STOP!!! This is not the God of the Bible!!! This is not Jesus!!! This is not what we see His apostles doing!!!" So again, I am heartened at your conclusions.

     
  • At August 25, 2008 9:45 AM , Anonymous Violet said...

    Dear God, protect me from your followers.

     
  • At September 22, 2008 10:20 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Friends,it is very dangerous to judge these sorts of events by our "feelings.I was in a bonafide CULT ,and for about a year,it felt wonderful!!I am still suffering spiritual damage from it,decades later.

     

Post a Comment

<< Home

 
Add Your Blog.com All-Blogs.net directory